can some of you more brainy ppl explain this to me,i bred 2 boxers both brindle one of red perantage on her mothers side to a reverse brinlde of brindle parentge on the sires side, and the pups were out of 7 6 red/white 1 dark brindle/white.
another litter going back a few years was 2 brindles mom of red sire father of brindle perantge threw 7 pups 1 of which resembled a silver color like the wiemeranr,grew to be a light red (very light)the colour never cropped up again.the rest were brindle and white,can someone explain this to me,will the kc register these colours,or will we as breeders have to dna,our puppies,which in fairness would be better to ensure correct parentage should the problem ever arise of the need to determine dna because of the colour problem.

why dont they just introduce dna as a must on every registration,and manatory health testing on every breed that way we would be able to wipe out byb and puppy farmers in one foul swoop.

Should be interesting to say the least,in our breed all colours are possible,we even get blues turning up from black to black matings.

Many years ago we mated our red bitch to a brindle dog,we got two mahogany brindles(gorgeous colour)a red and white pied and a brindle and white pied.

Our breed council and clubs are pushing to make health testing compuslary before registering a litter,a step in the right direction,but I feel a long way off.

We currently have two DNA test for L2/HC available,the results are automatically sent from the AHT to the KC,but to update reg certificates they want copies of the test result certificates

Not sure what you mean by reverse brindle but guessing it's fewer stripes than a regular brindle. All brindles are in fact, dark pigment stripes on a light pigment background. The degree of striping varies enormously from almost pure black with hardly a trace of pale pigment. This is actually just one huge stripe, and seen a lot in Staffies. The other extreme is almost pure fawn, with just a trace of striping (I've seen this in Whippets). They're both genetically brindles on the K locus (Kbr) but just have modifying genes to alter the frequency of stripes.

Back to the Q .... Both parents are obviously brindle carrying red. From this mating you would expect a ratio of 3:1 brindle:red, so yes it is a bit unusual to get so many reds but this is just the way the dice rolls on occassion.

If you look at it another way... each pup born has a 75% chance of being brindle and 25% chance of red (discounting extreme white). If you'd bred a hundred pups from those same parents, you would have seen the ratio pan out to the right distribution, but taking just one small section will often give a skewed sample.

Ah! Sounds like one of those rare recessives that many breeds carry. Weimaraner colour is composed of two recessives - dilute and brown. It's possible, but highly unlikely that these two could crop up simultaneously, so more likely you were seeing a pale blue (dilute). Born blueish, I would think, then as the dark pigment fades, as it does with most sables (reds and fawns), you're left with pale red pigment. Did you notice the colour of nose and eye rims?

I think the current situation is that the KC will register. It's the breed clubs that are requesting restrictions on registrations, but yes I agree.... Roll on DNA profiling.

That's amazing! They take the results directly from AHT but won't publish until the owner confirms it

Because the KC would undoubtedly have less registrations because of this and therefore less ££££££££.

Just out of interest, does anyone know WHY there is such diversity in colour naming, i.e, red/liver/chocolate etc for different breeds ???

I have no idea, I suppose it's who made up the colours ta the time the standard was written! In poodles it's just plain brown, I'd much rather it were called chocolate!
Becky

Yes, interesting. I think it's just an indication of how different factions of dog ownership in the past, had their own terminology and didn't see the need to share with each other, particularly in the days before registries. There could also be a strong regional influence.

The example you give above... the brown colour. An old time Border Collie breeder once told me that the term 'red' had come about because, at one time it was a very rare colour and when it did crop up in a litter of farm collies, it was compared to the colour of red Hereford cattle.

No doubt there was very little understanding of genetics at the time but it's now known that the red of Hereford cattle is a mutation of the E locus but the Border Collie 'red' is in fact brown.

Aah thanks guys. It is interesting and something I think the KC should get right, before considering whether or not it's possible or not.

It's made me wonder why the reds in my breed are called 'red' (probably from reindeer or such like !!!) Might look into that

With foreign breeds there can be a loss in translation. The brown colour in Finnish Lapphunds, is known as 'parkki' in Finnish which translates to 'bark' (as in tree bark).

In the early days of our breed in the UK we had a couple of Border Collie breeders who insisted on calling this 'red' as in their own breed, but we did convinced them that it was brown and should be referred to as such, particularly as we also have both the other two types of red in the breed.

It could so easily have gone the other way and we would have had a misnomer that originated in another breed.

How would that happen? There would still be people who mainipulate the system using dulicate"cloned"chips

Who would verify the chip is in & the DNA from the same animal ? I very much doubt the KC would insist it is done by vets as it would incur extra costs & also mean it is a restrictive practice which is again the law

I know the KC registered a litter of black & white ESS from liver & white parents & when one of the buyers queried it the KC told them to ask the breeder !!