register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
WhichPets
Dogsey Veteran
WhichPets is offline  
Location: Manchester/Cheshire
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,813
Female 
 
21-11-2011, 06:57 PM

Guard Dogs...

I was just wondering really;

When people buy a dog as a 'guard dog' but do no training with it, what can the dog offer?

Does a dog understand the difference between a 'good' and 'bad' person entering your grounds?

Would an untrained guard dog know what to do in the case there was an intruder?

If you do train them, do you have to tell them how to behave around each given person entering your home?


P.S I have no interest in having a dog to guard my property, I am merely curious as lots of people seem to want a dog that will guard, but is also friendly with strangers, but assume that buying a guarding breeds means they will be capable of this task with no training...
Reply With Quote
smokeybear
Dogsey Veteran
smokeybear is offline  
Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,404
Female 
 
21-11-2011, 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by WhichPets View Post
I was just wondering really;

When people buy a dog as a 'guard dog' but do no training with it, what can the dog offer?

Well first of all I would ask what they consider a "guard dog"?

Does a dog understand the difference between a 'good' and 'bad' person entering your grounds?

Real dogs (as opposed to Disney dogs) do not have that faculty.

Would an untrained guard dog know what to do in the case there was an intruder?

It's idea of what to do and your may be poles apart.

If you do train them, do you have to tell them how to behave around each given person entering your home?

Again, it depends on what you mean by Guard Dogs. I have a dog that will bite on command, fortunately it will come off on command too.

P.S I have no interest in having a dog to guard my property, I am merely curious as lots of people seem to want a dog that will guard, but is also friendly with strangers, but assume that buying a guarding breeds means they will be capable of this task with no training...
IME when people say they want a "Guard Dog" want one that a) makes a lot of noise and b) looks ferocious.

Neither is necessarily the case, it depends on the context and what you train them for.

As I always say, it is not the barking dogs you have to worry about, if they can speak it means their mouth is not full!


"REAL" Guard Dogs and their handlers are subject to the Guard Dogs Act 1975.
Reply With Quote
Collie Convert
Dogsey Veteran
Collie Convert is offline  
Location: West sussex
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,464
Female 
 
21-11-2011, 07:11 PM
In short, no.

If you teach the dog no boundaries and just let a natural guarding breed guard, then how is the dog to know who is friend and who is foe? They are not psychic.

That said, alot of dogs will naturally bark to warn of someone approaching or entering but 99% of dogs would not actually see off the intruder with intent(and that asks the question- how exactly would you want the dog to defend the property?).

What can a dog with a big bark offer? A deterrent. I don't think anyone should just 'allow' a dog to guard and become over territorial.

Its similar to people saying "oh if anything happened when out with my dog they would protect me" ...99% of dogs would not know what to do when truly faced with a threat...
Reply With Quote
smokeybear
Dogsey Veteran
smokeybear is offline  
Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,404
Female 
 
21-11-2011, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by Collie Convert View Post
Its similar to people saying "oh if anything happened when out with my dog they would protect me" ...99% of dogs would not know what to do when truly faced with a threat...
Yes, it is the same when people say "my dog is barking and growling because he is protective of me" er no, he is just windy.
Reply With Quote
Wozzy
Dogsey Veteran
Wozzy is offline  
Location: Nottingham
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,477
Female 
 
21-11-2011, 07:30 PM
For me, having a dog that would alert me to anybody entering the property (including the garden), knocking on the door or barking at appropriate things (strange noises, people lurking about etc) would be enough of a guard dog for my needs.

I have 2 dogs who do just that. Jed is not a barker unless there is truly something to bark at and he's pretty ferocious at the gate, you'd be stupid to pass the threshold going by his behaviour. I expect them to 'guard' the property from anybody, unless they know them already or I specifically invite them in (i.e I let the dogs know it's ok). My teenage cousin came to the gate once, the dogs had never seen her before so they 'did their thing'. My dad was angry they'd acted that way to a member of the family but they didnt know her! All strangers get the same treatment whether they be children, cold callers, OAP's or thieves!

Flynn isnt very frightening, not in the way Jed is, but he reacts to far more and often cries wolf so I take more notice when I hear Jed barking. He is much better protection for me when i'm out and about though as he is very much the watchdog of the pack and a bit of a protector and picks up on things which he feels arent right (somebody lurking in the woods or people who appear out of place).

I wouldnt get a Border Collie bitch called Jessie for a watchdog as she barks at nothing, runs into the kitchen if somebody comes to the gate and hides behind my legs if something is scary!
Reply With Quote
Moobli
Dogsey Veteran
Moobli is offline  
Location: Scotland
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,298
Female 
 
21-11-2011, 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by Collie Convert View Post
In short, no.

If you teach the dog no boundaries and just let a natural guarding breed guard, then how is the dog to know who is friend and who is foe? They are not psychic.

That said, alot of dogs will naturally bark to warn of someone approaching or entering but 99% of dogs would not actually see off the intruder with intent(and that asks the question- how exactly would you want the dog to defend the property?).

What can a dog with a big bark offer? A deterrent. I don't think anyone should just 'allow' a dog to guard and become over territorial.

Its similar to people saying "oh if anything happened when out with my dog they would protect me" ...99% of dogs would not know what to do when truly faced with a threat...
Totally agree with all this My dogs are "guard or watch dogs" insofar as they will warn of the approach of a person to my property. However, if the person is a friend and I invite them to come into the garden or house, then the dogs know they are not a threat and relax.
Reply With Quote
SLB
Dogsey Veteran
SLB is offline  
Location: Nottingham, UK
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,540
Female 
 
21-11-2011, 10:56 PM
Urm for me - same as others have said - they're guarding goes as far as needing to know when someone is here. Benjie does bark at little noises so unless we have a bark with a woo at the end - take no notice. Louie will only bark when there is something to bark at - as does Sadie..

Although if I invite them in then Sadie will flirt with them and everything, Benjie has started accepting that people who are invited in are in no way to concern him so he's started to settle down more. Louie however is a little suspicious of new people, especially if they try to touch him or tell him to do something.. then he gets tends to growl or woof at them..

Thats all they need to do.. And when I'm out on a walk if a stranger (without dog or children) Sadie will stick closer to me and Benjie will too.. I'd probably not be at all protected with Louie - he's normally off in some bushes somewhere
Reply With Quote
Maisiesmum
Almost a Veteran
Maisiesmum is offline  
Location: Berks Uk
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,036
Female 
 
21-11-2011, 11:20 PM
My parents along with my brother and his wife run a hotel. Their first 'guard dog' was a GSD. Untrained apart from domestic basics. The dog was a deterrent but apprehended a couple of people in their reception with hands in the till. The dog did not know who to apprehend but all guests were instructed to stay out of reception until the police arrived. She had a very close bond with my Dad and seemed to know instinctively when she was needed to be 'on her toes'.

My Dad also sent her running down the lane after a thief stole my SIL's bag. She did actually grab the thieves arm and he threw down the bag and my Dad called her off and she came back! All leaving a lot to luck and very risky IMHO.

They now have a dobermann as a deterrent and she is fine with staff coming and going and good with the kids. However at night she comes into her own. Somebody tried to get in with a screwdriver and she flew out the dogflap (or rather massive hole in the door) barking and the guy legged it and jumped the fence with her hot on his heels.

Again a dog with just basic training but a good watch dog. I imagine if the would-be burglar turned and stamped his foot she would back off in all honestly but he did not ask questions at the time!

They regularly have attempted break-ins and feel safer with a dog to alert them and as a deterrent.
Reply With Quote
MerlinsMum
Dogsey Veteran
MerlinsMum is offline  
Location: In an English country cowpat
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,810
Female 
 
22-11-2011, 12:34 AM
Interesting question

The dog our family had when I was in my late teens, I trained myself... she was a pleasant blend of collie, lab, and some lurcher thrown in - as far as we ever knew. Very bright, highly sensitive and with me, intuitive and eager to learn. I taught her early on to bark when needed, from a barely perceptive command, just for my own personal safety instincts. But I know she wouldn't have followed through... back then in the 80's barks were enough.

This did have a bearing on my choice of dog once I was able to have a dog of my own again, 20 years later. I was living in a city, and in the few months when planning to have a dog, there were two reports of women dog walkers being assaulted not a mile or more away. In both cases - one a GSD, one a BC - the dogs ran off terrified and did nothing to either deter the attacker or defend the owner.

The law on Dangerous Dogs being what it is, I know that IF those dogs had defended their owners they could have been liable. However as a lone woman out walking and enjoying the countryside (as I did growing up as a child in a rural village) I would not have felt safe without a dog at my side.

The problem with naturally guardy breeds is that unwittingly that guardiness can be brought to the fore despite the owner's careful training. As I found out when gangs of local youths decided to give me verbal abuse on a daily basis (due to an ASBO family from hell on drugs that moved in next door). This seriously stressed my dog and I for a long time; the police were not interested in pursuing it.

Now that I have moved away I still have issues with my dog - he will still react to any male teenagers especially wearing hoodies, as they unwittingly taught him (I can go into details if you wish) that they are fair game as prey, and certainly something he needs to protect me against.

That's the thing - however careful you are, sometimes the genie gets out of the bottle and you can spend the rest of your dog's life trying to get it back in.....
Reply With Quote
Moon's Mum
Dogsey Veteran
Moon's Mum is offline  
Location: SW London
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,509
Female 
 
22-11-2011, 09:24 AM
Originally Posted by Collie Convert View Post
Its similar to people saying "oh if anything happened when out with my dog they would protect me" ...99% of dogs would not know what to do when truly faced with a threat...
I dunno, I'm fairly confident that Cain would flattern anyone who was being threatening towards me, or staring at him, or walking too close, or wearing the wrong coloured hat today But hes protecting himself cos he's scared, not me. I walk in very dark places with him and he does make me feel safer and more confident, even the look of him is a good deterrent. However I don't consider him a guard dog and I am trying to deter his behaviour.

I guess if you've never trained a dog or put them in that situation you don't actually know what they'll do. For example Cain will lunge once and roar, but rarely does it repeatedly. If off lead he has bounced on his paws and barked but not made contact. Basically he does a bit of a show and dance which is probably enough to scare most people off. But if someone really stood up to him, I really don't think he'd know what to do and would probably leg it

I think a proper guard dog is fully trained and under control and should only guard when ordered too. I think most people get the terms guard dog and watch dog muddled up. Nothing wrong with wanting a dog to bark at the door, but they'll probably wag their tail and lead them to the silver when they get in
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Photo My Guard Dogs IsoChick General Dog Chat 11 23-05-2008 08:30 AM
Photo Big Scary Guard Dogs (not) Fred&Mya'smum General Dog Chat 19 02-05-2008 07:19 PM
Photo My Guard Dogs The GTB General Dog Chat 20 14-09-2005 01:22 PM
Guard/watch dogs? Kazz General Dog Chat 19 22-05-2005 10:02 PM

© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top