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Dibley
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03-12-2005, 03:09 PM
What a brilliant site MBII!

I am so pleased to see that David Grant MBE B.vet.Med. FRCVS Harmsworth Hospital Director has signed up. He is the best vet in the world!!many years ago he saved my old moggie from death good on you I salute you David!


I think cosmetic docking it’s totally unnecessary, in my opinion both the KC and the RSPCA in typical British style have sat on the fence on this issue for far too long and not done anything about it. Why is it the UK catches up with everyone else 10 years later!

I can see your point Het if the dog needs to be docked for working purposes then so be it, however the majority of our pets do not participate in such work. I cant understand how my plain old moggy cat can jump all manner of fences on a day to day basis and not get into the predicaments you describe however it would be wrong to compare a cats anatomy to a dogs however it still leaves me wondering………………………..

I don’t remember who it was now but someone compared a breeder to a surgeon and a vet to a GP. I respect your views but this is a ludicrous statement most breeders and certainly quite a few in the UK have not trained for years in animal medicine they may think they know everything however the truth of it is they know very little. A few know nothing at all.

In a court of law you will always look at the facts to draw your conclusions. Jake you can probably correct me with this but I believe the term is “In the best interests of” So is docking in the best interests of the dog;

Points for:

It conforms to certain breed standards therefore looks nice. (this is the interests of the human not the dog)

They may get their tail caught in a fence and risk painful injuries (this is in the best interests of the working dog. However doesn’t apply to your everyday pet)

Points against

90% of the vets in the UK think it’s painful to the animal and cruel ( this is debateable as even amongst this thread half the dogwebbers who have witnessed a docking say it’s painful the other half say it’s not who is telling the truth?)

The dog uses his tail as one form of communication to other dogs. A dog with no tail can sometimes be misread by others for this reason ( in this case the best interests of the dog are to have his tail)

I find the argument for docking very very weak which is why I believe in Britain our government is happy to sit on the fence with this one just as they are with any awkward issue.
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Dibley
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03-12-2005, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by jake: If the KC said tomorrow no breeds should ever be docked you would all jump. No one hand on heart can honestly say they would do something like cut off a tail in a pet dog. If that's how you feel it is obvious to me that you keep your dogs pureley as status symbols and nothing else.
I believe you have hit the nail on the head as this is what it boils down too.
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ste.n.steph
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03-12-2005, 03:24 PM
The dog uses his tail as one form of communication to other dogs. A dog with no tail can sometimes be misread by others for this reason ( in this case the best interests of the dog are to have his tail)
i'm sorry but this is a stupid statement, my cockers who have docked tails and my rottie still have a wag! just cos they have a stump doesnt mean they cant wag !

I'm sorry that you dont like docked tails thats fine but dont make people who like is feel bad! it is up to the person what they chose, yes sometimes puppies might feel it if its not done right! but when it is done professional how do you know they feel it??? are you in the dogs head?? no!

I'm sorry to get so mad about this as its not like me but i hate it when people try to force things on other people.

At the end of the day you chose not to have dogs docked you dont like it fair enough! but some people do and its not fair to treat them like they have comitted a crime!!!

for god sake, you moan about what is the uk coming to, well i wonder that same thing about freed of speach!!!!
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ste.n.steph
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03-12-2005, 03:28 PM
If that's how you feel it is obvious to me that you keep your dogs pureley as status symbols and nothing else.
My dogs are pet dogs and they are not a status symbol!!!!!!! my dogs mean the world to me and just cos i prefer the docked breeds docked doesnt mean i am a bad owner or doing it for a status symbol!!!!

And a status symbol is when you get a dog like a rottweiler or a pitbull or a staff just to look hard!!!!!!!!!!
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Dibley
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03-12-2005, 03:38 PM
I stand by what i've said this is my opinion and i'm allowed it. Dogs do use their tales as ONE FORM OF COMMUNICATION. If you read what I wrote I said it can SOMETIMES be misread by other dogs.

I cannot get inside a dogs head therefore I don't know if it's painful then again I don't know that it's not. I rely on trained professionals to tell me 90% of the vets tell us it is. Other EU countries and Australia has banned docking which is good enough for me.

I'm not trying to change anyones mind i'm stating the facts.
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ste.n.steph
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03-12-2005, 03:46 PM
trained professionals to tell me 90% of the vets tell us it is
you wanna talk about so called trained professionals??? angel my rottie when he was a puppy he became very ill and the emergancy vet tolds us he had parvo!!! got him to our own vets and he has a twisted testicle which was dying!! thats the so called professionals that know everything!
no-one knows cos they are not the puppy, look back at other threads ie louie who has hers docked and the puppies didnt even wake up.

Yes you are allowed you opinion and so am i without someone trying to make me feel like i have done a crime!
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ste.n.steph
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03-12-2005, 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha
I have no wish to get into a debate on this
i'm sorry i every did mini
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Dibley
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03-12-2005, 03:55 PM
ste.n.steph please don't take anything I say as a personal criticism to you. I am interested to see the facts of a case which as you may have noticed was why I put for and against in my argument. A debate shouldn't be a personal attack on anyone often on Dogweb it becomes it. It is allways hard when a subject stirs high emotions however quite often people avoid saying what they really feel for fear of upsetting someone.

I think we should all make a points for and points against list and see what we come up with! In my opinion that's what debates are about. I am sorry if i've offended you ste.n.steph it wasn't intentional.

For the record I allso question vets doctors etc I do not believe they are allways right after all they are not God! There are good and bad in all professions
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Luke
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03-12-2005, 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by Dibley
They may get their tail caught in a fence and risk painful injuries (this is in the best interests of the working dog. However doesn’t apply to your everyday pet)
erm......not necesarily, i.e Het's post about her springer who suffered the tail injury, i may be wrong but im sure Hets dogs have allways been pets....not working dogs.
Another case that springs to mind,my aunts Weirmeraner is simlpy a pet, Dulcie had an undocked tail until yesterday she got it caught in a bramble bush when ambling through the undergrowth, the affects were horrific.
Also another event that comes to mind, is a Doberman of ours, also a pet not a working dog, hadnt been docked and she once tore the skin from the tip of her tail to the bottom of her paw on her left back leg. She was jumping the styles and there was a hedgerow behind one which in turn she caught her tail on and the above described events occured (sp) She ended up having to have extensive surgery and a'form' of skin graft to attempt to 'resolve' the affects of this incident.
I am pro docking and pro choice
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willowish
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03-12-2005, 04:29 PM
Vets are not against farmers banding lambs, calves being castrated without pain relief or being dehorned what exactly is the difference with these procedures and the docking of puppies? Do these animals not feel pain or is it not as painful as we are lead to believe or is it ok to inflict pain on some animals but not others ?

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