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dizzi
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17-06-2011, 12:11 PM

Down-stay at a distance

He tries - bless him! But Layton can't seem to generalise thing - he can't generalise that squirrels live up LOTS of trees, not just the ones he's seen one up... and he can't generalise a down into a "down where you are over there"... and comes trotting up to you, tail wagging happily because he's being a good boy, and then downs right in front of you so you've definitely seen him haven't you and isn't he a good boy (if you turn away he'll reposition to be right in front of you - it's definitely endearingly cute if nothing else).

I'm determined to crack this one - just not sure how to break this idea it HAS to be right in front of you with a waggy tail and goofy grin on your face.
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ClaireandDaisy
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17-06-2011, 12:58 PM
You teach a down stay standing in front of your dog.
Then you wander about a bit. then return and reward.
Is that what you mean?
Or do you mean the Stop and Down when he`s already at a distance from you?
If so - I`d advise whistle training.
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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17-06-2011, 02:00 PM
Teach a down on a mat then you move away from the matt step by step then once he really has got it move the matt away for one go - to trick him into down in that place, then put the matt back for a couple more goes - then take it away - rinse repeate

take the mat to different places and practise down on the mat there, when he has it really good again take the mat away for one go and ask him to down in the exact same spot, put matt back for a couple of goes
and so on
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smokeybear
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17-06-2011, 02:49 PM
Most people train stays extremely badly as they train in several variables at once.

You train in each variable individually until you can then put them together.

Duration
Distraction
Distance
Difficulty

If your dog cannot lie down next to you for 10 minutes no point in doing anything else.

If it cannot lie down next to you whilst dogs, people, balls, skaters, cyclists, skateboards, bands etc pass by, there is no point in doing any thing else.

If your dog will not remain lying down whilst you go out of sight no point in making it a long time or with distractions.

There are no "tricks" in training reliable bombproof stays, it is a matter of extremely careful planning.
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dizzi
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17-06-2011, 05:26 PM
He can down and stay fairly reliably, but will only perform a down after trotting towards me and making sure he's slap bang in my eyeline. It's not bomb-proof by any stretch of the imagination, livened up by the fact that whoever his previous owners were had taught him down involves sticking your 4 legs in the air too - but it's decent and workable as a starting point (which when he does this - we've partly got that one out of him now thankfully - is distinctly embarassing in public).

It's the emergency down right where you are that I can't get at all because of his insistence on coming right back to me and downing there. It works in that it gets him back with me - but it's not what I'm wanting to achieve from it.
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wallaroo
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17-06-2011, 05:34 PM
thats exactly what toby does! i've started putting him a down, take a step back, get him to sit, take a step, ask him to down etc. He is used to doing a series of commands before any reward so it works ok. when he will do the down at a distance i'll work on doing it without putting him in position first
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smokeybear
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17-06-2011, 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by dizzi View Post
He can down and stay fairly reliably, but will only perform a down after trotting towards me and making sure he's slap bang in my eyeline. It's not bomb-proof by any stretch of the imagination, livened up by the fact that whoever his previous owners were had taught him down involves sticking your 4 legs in the air too - but it's decent and workable as a starting point (which when he does this - we've partly got that one out of him now thankfully - is distinctly embarassing in public).

It's the emergency down right where you are that I can't get at all because of his insistence on coming right back to me and downing there. It works in that it gets him back with me - but it's not what I'm wanting to achieve from it.
So what you need to do is get the dog to go out and stay out, is he foodie?

I train my clients the emergency stop (for domestic and KCGCDS) to use food.

If you throw food away from you (make sure it is large and easy to find) as the dog turns towards you to come back have another piece of food in your hand ready to throw. Have you hand up in the air.

Keep doing this, with some dogs you have to throw pretty quick. Just keep putting food in your hand and raising it in the air and as soon as the dog begins to turn and is looking at you throw the food.

It does not take long for the dog to realise that there is no point in coming back as your hand predicates another food throw.

You need say nothing.

So now you have the dog away from you.

Once the dog is out there scoffing a lot, try your "sit" command (use that before down as the dog is more likely to sit than down and hopefully sit will not mean "run back to mum"). As SOON as you see the INTENTION of sitting, throw the food which is in your hand which is up in the air.

Then shape the sit.

Voila

If you want the dog to go down, you may need to attach dog to something like tree etc and get the dog to go down whilst you are there and then increase distance and throw food when dog is going down (make sure your aim is good and dog can REACH it)!

Soon the hand in the air will become a cue, once that happens you can say SIT, wait a second and then give hand cue (NEVER give them simultaneously as you want the dog to move from the hand signal to the voice) not much good giving a hand signal if all you can see is its bum........

You will then have your stop on both hand signal and voice command.

HTH
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Tupacs2legs
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17-06-2011, 05:46 PM
imo he doesnt know 'down' properly,down u should be down wherever he is until 'released'...do u have a release command?

then it needs proofing.
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ClaireandDaisy
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18-06-2011, 07:02 AM
I teach an emergency Stop, not an emergency Down.
But I use hand signals for positions, which helps and
I teach it with a whistle because I need it to carry over other noise.
So first I teach a Stop in front of the dog (hand signal with treat, toot whistle, treat dog) till the dog gets it.
(I use hand up for sit and hand down for down because the dog follows the hand)
Then I do it a pace away.
Then when the dog is walking but attentive.
Then you just build up.

if your dog is breaking the Down, you haven`t taught it enough. Go back to basics. And always return to your dog to reward.
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DvnBiker
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18-06-2011, 08:08 AM
ok so for my twopenneth, most people teach a down and stay with the dog in front of them. Every one of my dogs have an instant down because I have taught them to generalise that when I say down, I mean down where you are. For alot of dogs, down means go to mum and then lie down because that is what we have taught them.
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