Approx 50% each, Carriers are not AFFECTED in any way.They are 100% healthy dogs.

The pups would then be DNA tested etc
Knowledge is power!!!!

I think what she is saying is he himself is a phenomenal dog and there is no problem carrying his line on, and I totally agree with her,It is such a small thing compared to what other problems borders have,and with your thinking it would be ok to breed a totally neurotic dog tested clear on everything(as we all know there are plenty of neurotic bc dogs around)but that would be bad for the breed,I think she is being a responsible breeder looking at all aspects of the breed rather than just one small issue.
there will be dogs long after we are all dead, and we will never be free of all disease, but of the lines we leave behind, I personally would rather have a dog that is athletic and smart,than one who has a whole new experience every trip around the dining room
IMO of course no offence to anyone here
ps Any of you girls single

I don't disagree with you, in an ideal world it would be the best thing but we don't live in an ideal world. There are other problems with BC's, temperament issues, epilepsy, TNS (fatal) CL (fatal) HD, PRA (not as common now). The fact is you could go for a line that was genetically clear of the diseases that could be tested for and then find something else wrong, there could be HD a couple of generations back waiting to bite someone in the bum. There could be epilepsy, a truly horrible heartbreaking disease or there could be temperament issues Then of course there are other things such as overshot jaws and monorchids, cryptorchids, lack of working ability. The fact is that being a carrier for a disease such as CEA is not a huge problem when you look at the bigger picture. The gene pool may appear to be large but how many of those dogs are in fact suitable to be bred from and how many could be disregarded because of problems mentioned? In the 4 1/2 years since the DNA test for CEA was made available I have been looking up the results on the border collie health page. I know not everyone posts their results on there but at the start of testing there were about 30 % carriers, we now have 622 dogs listed and only 122 carriers and that does not include those that are normal by parentage. In other countries the percentages are still higher but they have not had the same numbers of dogs tested and again it does not include those from clear parents. A lot of the dogs now testing clear will have come from litters where one parent is a carrier. It would appear the numbers of carriers for CEA are reducing, people may be using carriers in their lines but because of testing they can do it selectively and ultimately eradicate the disease which is the whole point of the test

http://www.bordercolliehealth.com/

great post, i agree!!!!

Not single unless you are rich!!!!!

It's amazing that this has gone on for so long (and so off topic). It's fairly obvious that breeding dogs involve decision making and value judgement.

Some individuals feel that it is okay to breed carriers if bred to a clear and if other attributes outweigh the negatives (the 'negatives' being that carriers can possibly be produced from this breeding).

Some individuals feel that the fact a dog is carrier supercedes any other attributes of the dog and so it is unsuitable for breeding to any party, including clears.

No one is right or wrong. It's a matter of opinion, and it's nice to have diversity. It's also nice to accept diversity.

Asymptomatic does NOT refer to carriers, it refers to dogs that HAVE a genetic condition(like go-normals for example)but have no symptoms(the same as my Cavalier with SM, he has it but (touch wood)has no symptoms(his diagnosis was done by MRI scan))

Carriers do NOT have CEA,affected dogs do, the aim in breeding healthy dogs for whom DNA tests are available, is to breed dogs that are not affected, if they are carriers it reduces the possible breeding partners for them.

Now dogs that have Haemophilia(usually the males)which is governed by a sex related gene(ie only found on the X chromosome)need only one gene to be affected(females haemophiliacs are extremely rare BTW they need a gene from both parents which would mean the father would have to be an affected dog)not two as with CEA, so breeding from a dog(or bitch)that has haemophilia is a big no no & to be honest breeding from a bitch that has produced an affected dog is also a big no no.

What you want to do(in a breed who have no material interest in as your breed is Border Terrier)is throw the baby out with the bath water, ie disregard any dog(bitch) that is a carrier(include many ISDS Supreme Champions & good working dogs)to"purify the breed of CEA"

I just thank doG that you are not breeding Border Collies & have no influence over the way DNA tests are used. You are being very narrow minded, classing CEA alongside of TNS & CL the conditions that kill affected dogs.

If your reasoning was applied to Rough & Smooth Collies & Shetland Sheepdogs you would almost wipe out the breed overnight(please note most of the breeders of these breeds do not clinically test let alone DNA test in this country)what would be the logic in that ?

As I said my dear, thats YOUR opinion, Im sticking to mine!! You do whatever you like, I used the term A-symptomatic to explain what I meant by carriers NOT having the disease, is that so difficult to grasp?? I DID say "if you like" to demonstrate that.
Dawn.

But carriers are NOT asymptomatic as they do NOT have the condition

Like I said also you are being very very narrow minded & CEA will eventually be almost reduced to nil, not by culling the gene pool but by using the DNA tests wisely to prevent affected dogs being produced, without losing the essence of the breed

Heaven forbid a DNA test is found for your breed & all your dogs found to be carriers, overnight you would have no bloodlines of your own, with your attitude

Like "I" said, thats your opinion. Once more, just for your benefit, I KNOW carriers do NOT have the condition, I used that term to illustrate the fact that they have the capacity to pass on the disease, but do not have it and will not develop it themselves, it may of been worded wrongly, but thats what I meant as I have repeatedly said!

they have no capacity of passing on the disease if only put too clears