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View Poll Results: What is the better product?
Headcollar 12 48.00%
Harness 4 16.00%
Other 9 36.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



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Lynn
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08-06-2008, 07:21 AM
Originally Posted by **Leanne** View Post
I started the thread to gauge the views of others members on the site. I did not think this thread would turn into a clash against who has the bigger ego or personal attacks!
Whereas most members have given their views and why it's worked for them, which I am grateful for, some others have given me conflicting views on how to train him and I'm now even more confuzzled, and tbh I wish I hadn't started this thread and feel I should maybe think before I ask for anymore advice, as in other threads I've read it ends up in a fight against who's right! I know all dog's are different and should be treated differently and hence why we have tried a few different methods and now he's just as bad as he was 6 weeks ago, I know it will take time to get rid of all the bad habits/problems Shadow has due to his previous owners letting him do whatever he wanted or choose to ignore the behaviour, I mean when we got him @ 17 weeks old he wasn't even house trained!! Now I have a genuine problem with him and all I wanted was for people to tell me their opinions not to start a war!!
Leannne I know I have mentioned this in my other post but it seems things have got a bit heated and all experiences from other members have got kind of forgotten. If you can get your dog to walk to heel on a flat collar and lead then all well and good what harness do you use,a trainer I took Ollie too told me to stop using the harness I was using and go for the premier easywalk it has the front clip and piece that tightens against the chest and steers the dog back into you. I have had two large dogs, one was a bit iffy around other dogs when on a lead as he had been attacked as a pup hence why I used the headcollar. It was purely for his safety and mine he could of pulled me into the road if he decided to lunge, and I didn't particularly want that, I managed to sort that out myself I didn't know about dog forums then.
Ollie is a night mare with a headcollar he just refused to go out of the house in one so we chose a harness he loves it it helps with his nervousness towards strangers for some reason he feels secure in it.
Malady does have a point about his breed , but Ollie's breed are bred for pulling carts and I have no problems with the harness giving him any aspirations to want to go back to his working routes. He is lazy though unlike Huskies.
Ollie wants to greet all dogs again he is a large powerful breed, so again I had to find something that made it safe and pleasurable for us both to walk out. If I walk him down to the corner for a wee, I sometimes just walk him on a collar and lead and he walks lovely, it is when he see's something to distract him I have the problem then he goes deaf and pulls and in all honesty I can't hold him.
I hope that has helped and you must try several things before making up your mind what is best for you and your dog.
I hope you find your solution I must admit this time round I took advice from here, I would of loved to be able to walk Ollie without a harness maybe one day he will maybe he won't the main thing is it is safe and pleasurable for you both that is what you need to work towards.
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Meg
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08-06-2008, 08:03 AM
Originally Posted by **Leanne**
I started the thread to gauge the views of others members on the site. I did not think this thread would turn into a clash against who has the bigger ego or personal attacks!
Whereas most members have given their views and why it's worked for them, which I am grateful for, some others have given me conflicting views on how to train him and I'm now even more confuzzled, and tbh I wish I hadn't started this thread and feel I should maybe think before I ask for anymore advice, as in other threads I've read it ends up in a fight against who's right! I know all dog's are different and should be treated differently and hence why we have tried a few different methods and now he's just as bad as he was 6 weeks ago, I know it will take time to get rid of all the bad habits/problems Shadow has due to his previous owners letting him do whatever he wanted or choose to ignore the behaviour, I mean when we got him @ 17 weeks old he wasn't even house trained!! Now I have a genuine problem with him and all I wanted was for people to tell me their opinions not to start a war!!
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
The opening post did`nt ask for advice, I thought it was just a poll to see what peoples general preferences were on product types for pullers
I thought the same Patch
May I add something here, (and this is not a criticism of Leanne or anyone else ) Leanne posted very recently...
Originally Posted by Leanne 2nd June
used a harness with Shad but he kept pulling with it so I am now using a halt which is working wonders!! But go for what you feel comfortable with
http://www.dogsey.com/showpost.php?p=1393477&postcount=13
Originally Posted by Leane 30th May
Hey Jess,We're definitely coming on Sunday! He's still pulling but no where near as bad as he did, looking forward to Sunday and so is he lol!
Leanne x
http://www.dogsey.com/showpost.php?p=1390637&postcount=19
Leanne Is this the same puppy ? If the halti was working wonders a few days ago what is the problem now, what does you trainer say at the class you are presumably paying to attend ?

Leanne is going to classes with a trainer and presumably being advised there, she has it would seem PMd Steve for advice also . It is of course Leannes privilege to seek advice from whomsoever she chooses. By all means everyone seek advice and get as many opinions as possible, but I think it is best to pick one method and stick to it so that at least it has a chance to work and the puppy doesn't get totally confused.
Also by chopping and changing the impression is given that one method doesn't work. There are no quick fixes in training, methods of training only work if given a little time, patience and consistency.

As I said this should not be taken as criticism of anyone
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youngstevie
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08-06-2008, 08:32 AM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
I thought the same Patch
May I add something here, (and this is not a criticism of Leanne or anyone else ) I think it can be very confusing when a lot of different methods are used all at the same time on a small puppy and no one method is given a chance to work.
Leanne posted very recently...
http://www.dogsey.com/showpost.php?p=1393477&postcount=13

http://www.dogsey.com/showpost.php?p=1390637&postcount=19
Leanne Is this the same puppy ? If the halti was working wonders a few days ago what is the problem now, what does you trainer say at the class you are presumably paying to attend ?

Leanne is going to classes with a trainer and presumably being advised there, she has it would seem PMd Steve for advice also . It is of course Leannes privilege to seek advice from whomsoever she chooses. By all means everyone seek advice and get as many opinions as possible, but I think it is best to pick one method and stick to it so that at least it has a chance to work and the puppy doesn't get totally confused.
Also by chopping and changing the impression is given that one method doesn't work. There are no quick fixes in training, methods of training only work if given a little time, patience and consistency.

As I said this should not be taken as criticism of anyone
My apologies to you and Patch then....shame on me regards the two post above, I hadn't seen those sorry .....but they appear to have worked in the first instance ...as Minihaha says, there has to be persistance and constistancey...if the Halti was working well then it should be continued with for a while, giving it time....it's abit like waiting for the jig-saw piece to be fitted. Sorry no criticism either but there will be good days and bad. We had a harness for Bruce..the first two days it was great then he found he could 'pull' outwards, so this had to be worked on then once past that he found he could pull backwards...meaning he was dragging, we worked on that now he walks great with it. But that was down to persistance
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Meg
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08-06-2008, 08:45 AM
Originally Posted by youngstevie View Post
My apologies to you and Patch then....shame on me
not at all Youngstevie the thread has become so muddled I am not surprised people are unsure.

I think it must be particularly confusing and difficult for a puppy who has reached 17 weeks having received very little training of any kind at the time when puppies have the greatest learning capability, then is suddenly given many new things to learn while adapting to a new home .
This is what I meant in another thread about looking at the whole dog when training. Other infulences can have an affect on training too.
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youngstevie
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08-06-2008, 09:20 AM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
not at all Youngstevie the thread has become so muddled I am not surprised people are unsure.

I think it must be particularly confusing and difficult for a puppy who has reached 17 weeks having received very little training of any kind at the time when puppies have the greatest learning capability, then is suddenly given many new things to learn while adapting to a new home .
This is what I meant in another thread about looking at the whole dog when training. Other infulences can have an affect on training too.
Derrrr muddled is not the word
I remember once....many many years ago when I was a fledgling being told the words.......''''BC's are very quick to pick up things and learn good behaviour......they are even "quicker" at picking up things
and learning bad behaviour''''

That has never left my thoughts...can see the meaning to....they are always on the second part of the thing before your have taught the first.....
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Jackie
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08-06-2008, 09:55 AM
I am not a fan of harnesses..my opinion is the make a puller and puller

The halti / gentle leader, in my experience ride around the face and into the eyes.

With owning Boxers, not many of the head harnesses are a good fit for the shape of their face... but I do like the "Dogmatic" ... it would be my recommendation to anyone using a headcollar.

I do use them on occasion, but I normal walk my two on half check collars and a normal leads.... I like the half check for safety reasons..... they cant slip their collars.

My youngest has been the worlds worst puller, (bless her, she still forgets herself sometimes)

I have used a harness , but it just gave her something to use all her weight against.

Obviously , you should start basic heel /lead work as soon as you can in puppy hood (I know this is not possible with rescues) but even when we start of right, we can still find ourselves with a puller somewhere down the line..... and need a little aid to help along a the way....

Better to use a tool , if it means you cant walk your dog.

I like to use a "dogmatic " along with a half check collar and a double ended training lead, or two leads.

Attaching the lead to both the dogmatic and the collar, this way you can bring into use, either or / both!

Using both hands , treats, (you need three hands ) you can take up both leads attached to both collar and dogmatic... applying restraint on either or/both... giving slack to the dogmatic if not pulling.

Making your dog work for his treats along the way..if you are occupying his/her mind , watch me/treats/ sit /wait, along your walk, he should be less likely to pull.

It works for me, but as has been shown everyone will have their own methods..
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**Leanne**
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08-06-2008, 11:19 AM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
:

I think it must be particularly confusing and difficult for a puppy who has reached 17 weeks having received very little training of any kind at the time when puppies have the greatest learning capability, then is suddenly given many new things to learn while adapting to a new home .
We have had Shadow for just over 6 weeks now and we waited 2 weeks until we started training as I took the time to let him settle in and find the right trainer! He made himself right at home after 3 days.
Yes I used a halti and as I said before it's now lying broken in the kitchen so I wanted to get other members comments before I went and bought another to see if I was using the right thing, as he seemed to get worse over the last few days until it broke - my fault - maybe I should have been more clearer. I will post up a video of him walking from this morning to show you and gain advice from there.

I also asked Steve's advice as my trainer is away for a week and felt the advice we had been given just wasn't working and I wasn't going to keep wasting my time doing something that simply wasn't and I knew he was a behaviourist/trainer and not sure who else is?! Or I would have asked others too.

(Btw we have only done 3 training classes today would have been our 4th)
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Jackie
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08-06-2008, 11:30 AM
Originally Posted by **Leanne** View Post
We have had Shadow for just over 6 weeks now and we waited 2 weeks until we started training as I took the time to let him settle in and find the right trainer! He made himself right at home after 3 days.
Yes I used a halti and as I said before it's now lying broken in the kitchen so I wanted to get other members comments before I went and bought another to see if I was using the right thing, as he seemed to get worse over the last few days until it broke - my fault - maybe I should have been more clearer. I will post up a video of him walking from this morning to show you and gain advice from there.

I also asked Steve's advice as my trainer is away for a week and felt the advice we had been given just wasn't working and I wasn't going to keep wasting my time doing something that simply wasn't and I knew he was a behaviourist/trainer and not sure who else is?! Or I would have asked others too.

(Btw we have only done 3 training classes today would have been our 4th)

A puppy of 17 wks should really not need to be introduced to head collars of any kind... he is still young enough to work on his walking to heel , with a normal collar and lead...with plenty of encouragement.. treats and praise... give your training classes time to work, as you have said, you have only been to 3....
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Colin
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08-06-2008, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by Lene View Post
I disagree with this statement... You sound the clicker, when the dog is in the right position.. The sound of the chain is when the dog is in the wrong position.

Cheers

Lene
I said "the sound of the chain works in the same manner as a clicker". I did not say that it was used in the same manner.
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Sarah27
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08-06-2008, 12:47 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
give your training classes time to work, as you have said, you have only been to 3....
I agree with this totally. When we got Bryan 1 year ago he didn't know how to walk on a lead. It's taken 12 months of work, but he's finally walking pretty well (not perfectly though). I think you maybe need to be a bit more patient and do a lot more training. It's frustrating, it takes time and dedication, but at least your pup is only 17 weeks. He's not had too long to learn bad habits. Bryan was about 10 months old when we got him so it took longer.

HTH x
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