I did`nt either !


I stressed that my dogs and I are partners, not heirachy based. My dogs do things for me because I invite them to and I make it fun for them. They have taught me far more than I could ever teach them...

Or with facial expressions and visual movements much like they communicate with each other, [ at least 80% of canine communication is visual, not audible ]


Unfortunately many people do think like that

Totally agree !

Yep - and deaf dogs prove the point of how voice does`nt need to come in to it at all. I often wonder how come I and every other deaf dog owner can work with our dogs in silence yet so many people think they `have` to shout or use stern tones to get what they want...

And in my case a partnership where my crew and I utilise our best individual strengths to do things for and with each other as a family unit, not a heirachy in the sense most people think of, its way more subtle than that.


Technically yes, but the important element is how the dog perceives *our* behaviour toward them. Its up to us to adapt too, not just to expect dogs to fall in to line because we demand it as some sort of `right`.

Will my dogs sit or down or recall or whatever when I ask them to ? [ note I say *ask* ]
Yes.
They eat before me, go in and out of the door before me, sleep on the bed with me, [ including snuggling up under the duvet ], are given treats `just because`, and all sorts of things which would give dominance and / or alpha-schmalpha theory trainers an ulcer over

And no I don`t have dogs of an `easy` breed, Collies are among the hardest because if not guided well they`ll guide themselves instead which is what happens so often and why so many end up in rescue as highly stressed hyper nutters or very traumatised dogs often with aggression issues.

So with my crew, while it might appear on the surface that I am the `leader`, the fact is that I need them to guide me every bit as much as they need me to guide them, hence we are a partnership with different area`s of skills which compliment each other, and thats the way we like it.

ok take out genetic:

I also don't subscribe to any one particular theory, but mix and match to suit me and my dogs. My dogs sleep in my room, don't have to follow me through a door and eat before, after or at the same time as me depending on what is happening that day. They do however have to have manners and be well behaved. This is gained through lots of fun training, mild aversives, lavish praise, treats, toys, herding - whatever suits the dog

What school of thought do you subscribe to (in relation to bringing up/training dogs etc) and why.

Over the years I have seen many different methods being applied to bringing up and training dogs. The methods I use are based on observing large numbers of dogs both in kennels and the home environment, exploring the methods used by others, trial and error, logic and common sense

I have always held the opinion that dogs are not 'lesser beings' than humans, they are another species using a complex language and by attempting to understand the 'language' and to see the world from a dogs perspective we are better equipped to coexist with and train dogs whether there they be working dogs or companions.

I don't subscribe to many of the ideas related to 'pack theory', but I do believe dogs are not solitary creatures and prefer to be part of a social grouping which may consist of a mixture of humans/other dogs/ other animals.

To my thinking dogs are opportunist and can be taught to willingly repeat behaviour that result in 'pleasure' of some kind, this makes reward based training an obvious choice. Fear and aggression are counterproductive and should play no part in a dog's life.
The training methods I use are in line with the thinking of John Fisher, Jean Donaldson, Dr. Ian Dunbar and others.

Regarding the pack theory, I feel it relates to wolves and dogs are not wolves, they breed and behave quite differently. Looking at a couple of points relating to pack theory :

Getting fed after everyone else: this is unnecessary and just not practical, puppies are fed four meals a day and should be fed at regular intervals regardless of when humans eat. Adult dogs are also better being fed at regular times which may not fit in with human meal times.

Being asked to wait before being let through the door: I am sure dogs don't think about being dominant and getting through door first, they just want to follow their instincts and to be out through the door as fast as they can in order to go off exploring, so I don't think making them wait to go through a door is an important consideration. A well trained dog will wait anyway either in or outside a door.

Not given attention on 'demand': this is based on common sense, it is not a good idea to let a dog become too dependant on receiving attention, there are times when a dog will have to be alone or won't be able to receive attention.

All toys not always accessible: again this is common sense, if dogs have the same toys all the time the toys will become familiar and may lose their appeal and so become less interesting/stimulating.

Dog not allowed on sofa or bed :as long as a dog learns to get on and off a sofa when requested to do so, I see no problem with allowing them to get up. Laying together is mutually rewarding for dogs and humans.

My maxim when dealing with dogs has always been in the words attributed to Hippocrates 'First do no harm' .
Dogs have brought great joy to my life, if I can repay their kind by helping to bring a little tolerance and understanding to those people who are new to dogs I will do just that .

I don't 'correct' it at all. I realise I must have made a mistake in my training or I jumped ahead too quickly and I ignore what they did wrong and carry on going back a stage or two to make sure it understands what is wanted.
I have just purchased the book 'Hear Hear' because I want to train my dogs to be gundogs and need distance control and therefore rather than shouting wanted a better way of communicating with my dogs at a distance and I thought this would be the best way forward.
As to the % of what makes up a dog your stats are totally wrong, the dog is nigh on 100% genetically similar to a wolf but there are still some 12,000 years between wolves and modern dogs.
At a fur farm a breeder decided instead of selecting for coat he wanted foxes that were more biddable so he selected for temperament first resulting in very handlable foxes but he ended up with floppy ears and curly tails etc which wasn't what was expect and all in a very short space of time.
Becky

I don't subscribe to any fixed school of thought except consistancy

I always smile when the "pack"theory is mentioned, as most of the studies quoted are based on captive wolf packs that bear no resemblance to a real wolf pack-for example in a real wolf pack the weakest members(cubs) are fed & eat first when the hunters return, they do not eat last as they do in captive packs were food is provided without a hunt. Why are the cubs fed first ? because of the obvious no cubs no genes passed on by the alphas to subsequent generations. In captive packs it is quite usual for nore than two bitches to breed-in wild packs this is extremely rare of course

My dogs always eat first for example, they see me as a provider not an alpha leader as they are well aware that I am not a canine

I set down their parameters early & although puppies are allowed to be puppies I don't like them doing things I don't approve of(uncontrolled barking being my bete noire so they get rewarded for not barking & ignored for barking for example)
I aim to set my dogs up to succeed in their training & not to fail(doesn't always work of course)

Physical punishment is a big no no as are chokers & e collars

Motivation gets better results IMHO

I subscribe to the practical school of thought. I try to teach and my dogs how to behave in an acceptable manner, how to deal with what life throws at them without flinching. I use a variety of methods to achieve these results but they are designed to suit my lifestyle and my dogs. I never use physical force although I do sometimes raise my voice. I throw every imagineable experience their way and encourage them to deal with the good the bad and the ugly in life. I try to have an understanding of what my dogs needs are and meet them to the best of my abilities. I lead and my dogs follow, I make all the decisions, but their needs come first, I feed them when they need to be fed and it is irrelevant whether I eat first or they do. They are taught to wait before going through doorways and they do not go upstairs let alone on my bed. Nothing to do with pack theory just my dislike of dogs in bedrooms. They don't sit on the sofa, but I frequently lie on the floor with them. Mostly I just enjoy them

I don't particulary subscribe to any 'school of thought'

I do think that to train any dog, you have to think like one. Watching dog behaviour over the years has taught me that any unwanted behaviour is treated with a sharp growl and a dominant posture. A sharp NO and body language that is assertive, normally rectifies any behaviour that is unwanted.

I do however practice SOME of the theory of 'pack structure' My dogs always eat after me, rarely sit on our sofa's, and don't sleep on our beds. Having a very dominant male dog has taught me that. Give him an inch, and he'll take miles.

Over the years I have trained more dogs than I care to remember, but, I'm always learning. Be it via dogs, or humans

When my wife and I got our 5 GSD, Thor, as an 8 week old puppy, we discussed his training. All our previous GSDs (plus a few other "incidental" dogs) demonstrated the ability to comprehend much of our language. So we deternined to try raising (not "training") Thor as nearly as possible the way we raised our 4 kids.

The result was tremendously gratifying, aside from being great fun! Thor was the best behaved, most deliberately interactive dog I have ever known or heard of.

BW had always been tops at housebreaking our dogs - usually 3 days was enough, with few if any "accidents" thereafter. BW also ALWAYS too new puppies to bed with her "because they niss their mommies!) Problem there was that puppies grow, but our standard double bed didn't. When the pups got up to about 100 pounds, things got a tad crowded, but we didn't care. Well, I didn't, anyway. BW got dumped on the floor a couple of times, so she wasn't too pleased about that!

Thor, when a few months old - six or seven as I recall - took a raw roast off the kitchen counter. I happened to come into the kitchen at that moment, grabbed the roast from him, shouted "No! You leave food alone on the counter" and, just as I had done with our kids, gave him a swat on his backside. Well, actually his thigh. He NEVER took anything off counter or table - even coffee table, again. More than that, when we acquired Lady as a 2 yr old from the street, and had no intention of keeping her so didn't train her, Thor took care of that chore for us! A couple of weeks after rescuing Lady, I was outside and happened to look in the window where I saw Lady standing on the table eating the leftovers from my lunch. I did nothing - makiing the mental note that we definitely were not keeping that d----d dog! That happened 13 years ago, and Lady has, with two minor and perhaps justified exceptions, never done that again. (Instead, she very politely asks - no drooling, no begging!)

Thor's behavior (and through him, Lady's) was expemplary. He would calmly greet guests, then settle down somewhere, usually paying attention but not interfering. Thor, like all our GSDs was great with children. On at least two occasions he prevented toddlers from potentially falling down steps by simply blocking there way.

The only thing ever broken by any of the six dogs was a small crystal & silver bud vase that was on the corree table. When Thor was young, his tail wafter across the coffee table and knocked tha vase over, shpping the rim. Each time we use that vase - chip & all - I think of dear Thor. (He was NOT chastised - it was a pure accident!)

Yet place any fine glassware on the floor, and Thor - later Lady - will very carefully avoid it. If the glass is of the cheap variety, they pay it no mind, other than avoiding spilling it.

Thor liked cops. (BW & I work with them, so uniforms are common at our house.) Thor gained fame among the police for being so well behaved and friendly. One day while Thor and I were sitting on the front porch, a Black & White pulled up to the curb and a young blonde female cop I'd never seen leaned out the window and asked, "Can Thor come down to be petted?" Thor looked up at me quizzically, and I simply said quietly to him, "If you want to." Whereupon he trotted down to the car and was thoroughly petted and made over. Then, without anyone saying anything, he strolled back up onto the porch and lay down.

O.K. I've rattled on much longer than I should have. But I could easily fill a book about Thor.

Jere he is at 8 weeks:

And here as an adult:


I'm not recommending our method to anyone - but it sure worked beatifully for us!

Great thread

Training for my dogs has always been that they are treated like my children. They are not allowed to climb and jump all over the furniture-they can sit or lay on it though. They are bought up to have manors, my children do not shout at people-therefore my dogs are taught not to bark at people etc.

I find with the bull breeds, they need much firmer training than other breeds. My CKCS will do everything I tell her too, where as my SBT X AB will try and do as he pleases- whether its what ive asked him to do or not!

My dogs, however, are fed at certain times. They sit when they are asked, my SBT x AB will give his paw when asked for it, they 'stay' when crossing a road, they also 'stay' when I open the front door. They wait when asked, they come down the stairs when asked 'down', they also drop whatever they have in their mouth when told 'here'

When doing something I do not want them to do, they just get a firm NO. This has always worked for me.

Training for me is done through common sence, not done by 'the book' so to speak. One word commands are a must.