Luz what size dogmatic did Brodie have??...Keena's dogmatic has thinner strapping than Takoda's and I would say is a bit on the flimsy side...Also the I have the same issue with the buckle on Keena's that Mag's mentions, it is quite small and fiddly and takes me a while getting it done up! Then with Kody's his buckle is easier but because he is so furry I find it awkward too...Due to Takoda's headcollar being bigger I am more impressed with his though.

Like I said I'm lucky that it's Keena's that is the more flimsy as she responds really well to it and doesn't pull with it on, if Takoda's was the smaller size like hers I would be in trouble!

Although fiddly I would say that the smaller size looks well stitched and together etc...

The thing I think is the problem is because NID's have quite a slender face in comparison to alot of breeds their size and even smaller dogs you sometimes end up with the same size that would also be for a collie etc, so the problem is you have a much bigger, stronger and heavier dog that needs something much stronger but is wearing the same thing as a dog 30 or so lbs lighter.

I looked at Canny collars and I think Takoda would do well with one but Keena can slip all collars and even though you are told to do the canny up tighter than normal I know Keena would be able to slip it so I didn't get one.

That's the one thing in Dogmatics favour right now is that neither dog has been able to slip the headcollar

I'm suprissed dogmatic are being a pain in the butt about this though as you would think they would be more willing to listen about problems seeing as the webbing one's were only just launched

Just checked the sizing on ours...Keena's is a 3 too...It's a shame they can't make a version that fits this size but with thicker strapping for bigger dogs because it's just like I said, because of the shape of NIDs heads the sizing seems to come up smaller even though they are big dogs...It's something the headcollar companies need to address.

If you were buying for a boxer of staffie etc you could imagine you would then get a bigger size because of their wider heads and even though they are smaller dogs overall the headcollar would be much more substantial for them.

There is a big difference between the size 3 that Keena has and the size 4 that Takoda has...I notice on Keena's size three she is almost to the end of the fitting and could have probably had a 4 and just had it on the first hole or so.

I think the next size after a 3 is 3L and yes they should make allowances for big strong dogs with finer faces. Or know which breed of dog they are distributing to and not recommend the webbed one.

Ahh...Sorry forgot about the inbetween L sizes...That would be why there is a big difference in the 3 and 4 then...lol (thanks for reminding me!)

Your welcome, nice to see you back by the way.

.....Thanks

Do any pet shops stock the Dogmatics or did you all get them online?

Only on-line Lucky but make sure you get the leather one as the new webbed isnt any good for our type of dog. I think I have been used as a fine example but its not the money thats the issue its the principle, I only asked for an exchange to a stronger collar not a dispute.

Thanks - any luck with this Luz?

I have a halti but didn't persevere with it because it was horrible when Loki would start pogoing in the middle of the road to get it off.

After his recent lunging escapades I tried it again today with limited success. He still pogo's and rolls around to get it off and it either ends up in his mouth and chewed or off completely, so something Houdini proof would be a Godsend as it does help with reinforcing the no pulling command. I did use lots of praise and reward when he stopped trying to maul the halti and this worked a bit, but then we had lots of stand offs where he just refused to move.

I was reluctant to pull too much - has anyone had a dog hurt by wearing a halter type thing and the dog pulling regardless?

tobs is a size 6 he has never got it off or been hurt by it, he just walked better unlike the halti trying to rub it off all the time......
it stopped him from pulling almost right away he forgot himself now and again but he soon remembered he had it on and stopped as he knew he wasn't going to win.
so you can get webbed ones now then? don't they do the leather ones but smaller straps for the n.i heads etc?