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Gnasher
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14-04-2015, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Dibbythedog View Post
I think you need to work on your husband and how he handles him. You have set an example of how to manage you dog without getting bitten and I hope he can be persuaded to follow it .

Dibby you could be talking about my oh! He is a bloody nightmare sometimes with Ben and frankly if I was Ben I would have bitten him. He never praises him is his worst fault or if he does not enough. His worst offence in my eyes is the foot nudge! Exactly the same as AA's old man. It's bad ... I nudge Ben with a hand or my knee ... usually a hand. A warning index finger in Ben's face puts me in a very vulnerable position which tells Ben that I am in charge simply because I am not scared of him and I trust him completely. Such a confident gesture speaks volumes. I would never use my foot to nudge him ... mayybe now we are in such a good place with Ben I might very gently nudge him from behind to make him go forward but nothing else with the foot.
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SarahJade
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14-04-2015, 06:30 PM
I really hope that my earlier post didn't offend you. I think myself and Myra were just saying that depending on the situation it might be time to accept that this isn't the ideal setting for him. While we frequent a few of the same forums I don't really know you and neither does Myra. As we said with our present and past circumstances we would have had to give in.
I do think that every dog has a home that can help, and we don't want you to feel guilty if you feel you aren't it. I hope that makes sense.

After reading your reply I do think you can do wonders with this boy. Love his name BTW.
To be totally honest and blunt, I do think your husband needs to back off. He's still settling in, and getting used to you, things might get worse before they get better as he tests you both. And every bite is him telling your husband 'STOP'. Sounds like he has pretty good bite inhibition and your husband is lucky he doesn't have a serious bite wound.

As for the wolf kisses, Cookie was far from a wolf but would do exactly what you described! He was a sod for getting bottoms and the top of the back of your leg. He would only do this to people he really liked, and usually women so really me and my mum. It would always make me jump, and he would look like he was laughing. He was very mouthy and right up until the end he needed to have something in his mouth when he got excited or else it would be your arm.
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Awaiting Abyss
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14-04-2015, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by Jackie View Post
You keep saying you understand body language, but from what you post I am not so sure, you keep mentioning the dog "apologizing" can you be more specific , because dogs would need to understand and remember that did something wrong for them to apologize , along with the dogs other behaviour as Dibbythedog stated, the dogs body language could be an indicator of many things, lowering heads and ears could have many meanings, its more likey he is anxious about something, ( the tone of your voice or body posture) rather than him seeing you as alpha.

I think you need to take a heart felt look at your situation and see if you can really give this dog the time he needs to help him, or allow him to go to someone with more experience with rescues with unknown history.
I have been studying wolves since I was able to read. I know their body language. When a subordinate wolf does something they will apologize to the leader wolf and the leader will then accept the apology. If she/he does not, then that recommends that the leader is not worth following.


I'll post in more detail with references later if you prefer. I don't have time right now....
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SarahJade
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14-04-2015, 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by Awaiting Abyss View Post
I'll post in more detail with references later if you prefer. I don't have time right now....
I'd love some references, I love reading about dogs and wolves. I did go through a phase of wanting a wolf dog but not sure that I could house one, never mind trying to get one in the UK.
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Strangechilde
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14-04-2015, 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by SarahJade View Post
I'd love some references, I love reading about dogs and wolves. I did go through a phase of wanting a wolf dog but not sure that I could house one, never mind trying to get one in the UK.
SarahJade, I am so glad that you are a thinking person! If you're not absolutely sure you can handle a wolfdog, then it's not right for you. Not that you need the 100-acre ranch and 15" high electrified fence... you don't, but you do need time, time and more time, and a boatload of patience. And a tolerance for dog hair. On everything. Always. All the time. And a willingness to accept that these are not regular dogs-- you'll never be able to treat them as such. They may not be good party guests. They may not like anyone apart from you. They may want to kill small animals-- like your neighbour's cat, or those sheep over there; yeah, they're small, when you're the size of a wolf. They may not like children, yours or anyone else's-- little, loud, flapping balls of gross sugar-smelling snot that they are. They're going to be who they're going to be, and you're going to have to roll with it-- and master rolling, because that's your job, and you're going to be learning rolling for the rest of your life. And if you ever forget it, the wolf is going to remind you. In the face. With tongue. And that's when he's being nice.

When people don't think-- that's when these animals end up in rescue. When people do think and ask questions and look for advice-- that's when we get good dogs and good people. So THANK YOU SARAHJADE for bring a good person! I mean it. I do.
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Gnasher
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14-04-2015, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by Awaiting Abyss View Post
I have been studying wolves since I was able to read. I know their body language. When a subordinate wolf does something they will apologize to the leader wolf and the leader will then accept the apology. If she/he does not, then that recommends that the leader is not worth following.


I'll post in more detail with references later if you prefer. I don't have time right now....
Well said ... I too would love to see the references.
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SarahJade
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14-04-2015, 07:35 PM
Strangechilde you have me blushing, and thinking of kids in a totally different light... they are gross aren't they.
I honestly don't think my OH would do well with any being with that sort temperament, he's too in your face and demanding. Makes me want to bite him sometime... Heck even my gerbil tells him off something nasty.

But yes to toot my own horn I too always support someone who realises that just because they want something or someone that they aren't the right home for it and so just admires from afar.
Took me 9 years of on and off thinking before I brought ferrets home, never mind a wolf dog. And to me that's the way it should be.
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Gnasher
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14-04-2015, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Strangechilde View Post
SarahJade, I am so glad that you are a thinking person! If you're not absolutely sure you can handle a wolfdog, then it's not right for you. Not that you need the 100-acre ranch and 15" high electrified fence... you don't, but you do need time, time and more time, and a boatload of patience. And a tolerance for dog hair. On everything. Always. All the time. And a willingness to accept that these are not regular dogs-- you'll never be able to treat them as such. They may not be good party guests. They may not like anyone apart from you. They may want to kill small animals-- like your neighbour's cat, or those sheep over there; yeah, they're small, when you're the size of a wolf. They may not like children, yours or anyone else's-- little, loud, flapping balls of gross sugar-smelling snot that they are. They're going to be who they're going to be, and you're going to have to roll with it-- and master rolling, because that's your job, and you're going to be learning rolling for the rest of your life. And if you ever forget it, the wolf is going to remind you. In the face. With tongue. And that's when he's being nice.

When people don't think-- that's when these animals end up in rescue. When people do think and ask questions and look for advice-- that's when we get good dogs and good people. So THANK YOU SARAHJADE for bring a good person! I mean it. I do.
Excellent excellent post Strangechilde ... especially re the hair (or tumbleweed as I like to call it!). Far too many people suffer from the snowdog syndrome - they've seen the film and they want one ... with absolutely not a clue about how very demanding these dogs are! And with the exception of BRUCE, mine have all been low content ... still, we can never go anywhere where you cannot take a dog - no theatre, cinema, trips abroad, visits to friends for a weekend, nothing and nowhere where a large hairy mutt would be welcome! It is a HUGE commitment, the biggest one being there must always be someone home because you cannot leave them home alone, unless you have more than one and they live outside but yet don't howl and bark the place down.

For me, it is totally worth it, with the exception of a pure Malamute, I am spoiled for any other type of dog. but sadly all too often these magnificent animals end up being badly, thoughtlessly or inappropriately treated like Katzuko. AA sounds an absolutely superb owner for a wolf cross rescue and I wish her all the luck in the world.
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SarahJade
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14-04-2015, 08:00 PM
Gnasher I do remember when I joined this forum that I often disagreed with your posts and thought of you as part of the CM brigade, who simply controlled their dogs through bullying and threats. I now see that I was completely and utterly wrong and I would like to say how appalled at myself I am and how sorry I am for judging you. I can only blame my immaturity, my close mindedness and jumping to conclusions. I do hope you forgive me, and I now apologise for taking over the OP thread about totally irrelevant stuff. Missing being able to send messages.

Oh and now you mention it mals and huskies and similar dogs are on the list of dogs I won't have because I honestly thing they would clash with my OH's personality. Not that I want to tar all dogs of one breed or type, I'm sure there are many out there that don't fit my stereotype but most don't do well with being manhandled. And I blame my OH, obviously. But unfortunately were pretty bonded and he pays the bills...
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Gnasher
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14-04-2015, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by SarahJade View Post
Gnasher I do remember when I joined this forum that I often disagreed with your posts and thought of you as part of the CM brigade, who simply controlled their dogs through bullying and threats. I now see that I was completely and utterly wrong and I would like to say how appalled at myself I am and how sorry I am for judging you. I can only blame my immaturity, my close mindedness and jumping to conclusions. I do hope you forgive me, and I now apologise for taking over the OP thread about totally irrelevant stuff. Missing being able to send messages.

Oh and now you mention it mals and huskies and similar dogs are on the list of dogs I won't have because I honestly thing they would clash with my OH's personality. Not that I want to tar all dogs of one breed or type, I'm sure there are many out there that don't fit my stereotype but most don't do well with being manhandled. And I blame my OH, obviously. But unfortunately were pretty bonded and he pays the bills...
Tis no problem SarahJade and no need to apologise ... you are partly right in that a lot of what he says I like and agree with ... you cannot bully or threaten a wolf cross though - remember Shadow? - they simply will not tolerate it, and sooner or later will let you know, as Shadow did CM!

As far as my OH is concerned, he is pretty OK - it is just his lack of praise and the foot nudging that I don't like, but apart from that Ben has totally accepted him as alpha male and trusts and respects him. I just personally feel that I have a better relationship with Ben and less trouble when out with him on my own - he seems to be far less aggressive with other dogs than he is with OH.

Thanx for your lovely post, and absolutely no need to apologise x gnasher x
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