It sounds like after the initial bad greeting Cain was a bit stressed out with Roger in the house so I can totally empathise with your feelings of stress that Cain was stressed and felt that he had to react in a way you normally try so hard to avoid.

Kestral is exactly the same, if she has a bad reaction and someone has pushed her over the edge by looking at her and talking to her it is very hard to come back from.
Again, I would have thought similar to Kestral that Cain is more relaxed outdoors with strangers than in? This is why Kestral is never allowed to greet people in the house until she knows them.


From seeing Cain generally I think he has potential to be good in many situations that you avoid out in parks, such as round people and dogs.
I can 100% see why you avoid people and dogs as no reaction is much better than a reaction, both in terms of his training, and respect and danger to others. Perhaps all your work really has been moving Cain on and it could be that he is ready to allow people and dogs a little closer than previously?

Kathy has invited me to do a similar thing where I wear a jacket near other people training that says dog in training, do not approach - to habituate her to dog friendly people before the real world, so that could be interesting? Does sound as though he is quite intimidating though towards Cain

How confusing for you, I can well understand your quandary, it seems a golden opportunity to go to the centre, but Mugfords handling of Cain would have me worried too if he were mine.
Funny thing is he does mention avoiding eye contact in his books, perhaps he was seeing how far Cain was capable of taking his aggression so he knew what he was dealing with ?.
I noticed your in London, if it doesn't work out with Mugford you might want to look into Nina Bodarenko as a possibility, fantastic lady who pioneered the training for Canine Partners, worked closely with Ian Dunbar, and delivers seminars worldwide.

http://www.ninabondarenko.co.uk/index.html

It does sound like too much, too soon After a stressful reaction in the house, to then take Cain out and expose him to things he's not used to seems a bit overwhelming. Perhaps, because of the situation, he was trying to offer as much insight/cover as much ground as possible to make up for Chirag's disappointing report? Possibly to Cain's detriment though

I think it's quite poor that he forgot his cheque book when the whole meeting was engineered because of poor service from his company. The cynic in me wonders if this was to engineer further meetings? Could he not issue a refund by bank transfer?
Is the training at the centre being offered for free or will you have to pay for it?

As a general "I know nothing" pontification...

Would say he did well in the park because he did well in the park.
More fun than being the centre of attention at home?


For the rest of it is - it even possible for things not to be a bit confrontational when someone's in your house to assess your dog - specially if you're a little nervous/ on edge about it?

Doesn't sound like anything bad happened to him so wouldn't stress too much about setbacks.

Other than that...


"You must do what you think is best ofcourse"

Karly, I don't know if the sessions at the centre are free. I assumed they were but now I'm not sure...

The problem is that Cain has never ever reacted so badly to someone...except the vet

Not dissimilar to seeing the vet?

In Lieau of refund?

If they are free then I would perhaps be inclined to give them a go on the basis that you have nothing to lose, you can leave and go home if it just reaffirms your feelings that it's too confrontational for Cain. Not sure I'd be willing to pay for them without knowing if the methods were entirely ones I agreed with though.
Cain seems to me like he's pretty good outside of the house so I'm not surprised he did well at the park but to have been constantly pushed in the house first does worry me a bit. A lot of stress is put on keeping a dog sub-threshold and it doesn't really sound like that was the case here at all and for you to be the one to put your foot down about children stroking him seems wrong. I know that sometimes we're our own worst enemies and hold back from fear/nerves but I think he should have at least had your permission and known your limits before going that far.

I wasn't there though and maybe I'm picturing it to be worse than it was but I would be thinking twice about taking him up on his offer myself.

I agree with krlyr that I wouldn't have been very happy for him to have pushed my dog above threshold.. and then kept pushing...

Does sound like Cain did really well in the park so credit to him there! I can imagine you were very nervous and I think its pretty risky of him letting kids around. I think you handle him well yourself without pushing him over the endge and creating bad experiences indoors.

Wow, I can see why you were nervous about the whole thing. To have Cain react like that must've been scary to see, and for him to be brought there on purpose...I am guessing he's done it to see how far he can go, but should have communicated with you better too. I've seen video of Roger being bitted by a dog when he pushed them too far.
I hope you get the refund soon and the visit to the centre is free. If you go, you'll know a little more of what to expect and can insist on some things staying in your comfort zone more if you wish.

I have a feeling he wanted to know how far cain would go and what he was dealing with. However I would defo be calling to check about the refund/"class" costs at the centre..and a wee chat about future methods/training plan from what hes seen before the next session begins.