Ben, you totally misunderstand! Utonagans, NI's, mals, huskies, they all play very rough. Some people would be horrified to see them, but it is play.

As for the tail wagging, I did not make myself clear obviously. I was not trying to signify anything about the lack of tail wagging. What I mean is that Hal NEVER wagged his tail, I mean NEVER, like most dogs do when you feed them, pat them on the head and tell them they are a good boy. I had never had this in a dog before, but he was very aloof and would never do anything as undignified as wag his tail. Tai wags his tail frantically like a banner. Ben wags his tail sometimes in friendship when approaching other dogs, sometimes not in friendship. He holds his tail very high because he is a high ranking dog, as does Tai, as did Hal, but Hal NEVER wagged his tail that I can remember. Tai wags his tail the whole tail, just as any normal dog, but Ben no, except when he is with other dogs. But as Heather I think it was pointed out, it does not always mean a friendly dog, it can mean just the opposite.

The point I was trying to get across was how aloof Ben is, like his father but not as much.

Tails are terribly important to dogs in communicating to other dogs, which is why I am so anti docking.

Got the dentist now

Gnasher, I didnt missunderstand, you said fighting
There is nothing so special with your breeds - all breeds are different - but very the same as well
My two PLAY very rough, but it is play, no pushing boundreis, no dominance, just PLAY
I find it very sad that you think tail wagging is undignified, thats like being proud of a child who never smiles. One of my happiest days was the first time Mia finnaly connected with me and trusted me enough that she wagged her tail at me. I am sorry that you cannot get that with your dog.

I am also concerened that you think it is OK for your dog to greet other dogs with a very high held tail
This is NOT signifying rank, this is a very uncertain dog. When Mia approches another dog like that I get the hell out of there, it means she is very much on edge
Basically it means you have a high chance of a fight about to happen, and if it hasnt happend (and you did say he used to fight other dogs alot) it is only because of the very good manners of the other dogs and not because your dog is high ranking

I really wish instead of reading flawed babble on wolves you would get a good behaviourist in to asses your poor boy. The more I hear the more worried I am that you have a very stressed unhappy dog on your hands

Gnasher, you constantly tell people they have misunderstood you but read back your posts and see why. You are always saying "No that's not true", "When did I say that", "You've misunderstood me" when it's there in black and white. You said that it was not just play. "I can give you an example of his wilfulness, if that's the right word! Tai is boss, absolute out and out leader of the dog pack in our household - but Ben still has to push it sometimes, still pounces on Tai and beats him up in a gentle way, but there is a seriousness behind it"

It's because I am either illicitly playing on t'internet at work and therefore could get caught, or else I'm at home and having OH constantly nagging me saying "you're not on Dogsey again are you!" I really should read my posts over before pressing the button.

This is SO FRUSTRATING!! I have just read what you are questioning!! I give up, I really do.

I don't know, neither do I care, what other people's dogs do, but mine have a very strong sense of pack. Tai is top dog, but Ben also wanted to be top dog when he first moved in. To cut a very long story short, Tai is now top dog - end of.

However, Ben being Ben, he likes to push it sometimes, put a toe in the water and see if he can get one over on Tai. It is all very good humoured, HOWEVER, there is IS an element of seriousness behind it. If Tai were to show weakness, Ben would immediately take over top slot.

This is MY blog and I'll cry if I want to, so there!!

Ben, "my flawed babble" as you describe it is actually based on personal experience, not with Hal although he was challenge enough

Off to the dentist now

he is lush

Trouble is - others have disproved it in a scientific way.

What a beauty