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Lotsadogs
Dogsey Senior
Lotsadogs is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: May 2009
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10-03-2011, 01:16 PM
Firstly congrsatulations to those who chose to rescue. A brave and kind hearted move - there are far too few good dog homes out there. I commend courage.

I rescued a dog that had bitten several people. She continued to remain a risk to people throughout her 18.5 years of life. So I understand the challenges that this situation can offer.

We had a simple rule to keep her safe. NO ONE was allowed to touch her, unless she was calm and solicited attention from them first. In the house, she was trained to lie still on her bed, even when people where moving about. AS she becams senile, and could no longer understand her training, I simply sat with her, when someone left the room to go for a coffee or whatever. My job as her owner and best mate, was to keep her safe and within the law.

You wouldnt want strngers touching you, I dont want strangers touching me (unless they are Robbie Williams or Hugh Jackman, in which case they can touch all they like ). So why should we expect our dogs to allow it?

Especially when there is am "intruder" in the home, a situation that the dog may well not understand.

It is my belief that many dogs who bite people are inadvertently queued to do so by their owners. Often waving goodbye, or pushing someone away physically or by gesture can be viewed by a dog (especially the herding breeds) as a request for help from the dog, o move this person on. But sometimes it is just that the dog doesn't want to be touched, or doesnt want a non family member in their space. Allowing the dog to go to the door when a visitor arrives, can also be seen by the dog as a request for "back up" in a potentially volotile situation.

I would keep the dog safe by ceasing contact between it and any visitors. Put the dog away when visitors arrive and then when things have calmed down, bring the dog into the room on a lead, and then TELL IT WHAT TO DO. ANd that is the secret "tell the dog how to behave". Dont allow a dog to make decisions for itself about how to handle a situation it doesnt understand. Ask the dog to lie down and stay there, on its bed. Train this into the dog reliably before trusting the dog in the presence of stangers.

If you are still unsure about your dogs reliability though, even after a lie down and stay training period, then keep the dog away from people.

Managing and trainign a dog like this can be a challenging experience. But it is also a fantastic opportunity, to discover more about dog behaviour and find ways to keep canine friends, safe and secure.

I wish you Good luck with the dog and to all those involved, I again, commend your decision to give this unknown quantity a living home and second chance. There are lots of dogs that are not so lucky!
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Kiing
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10-03-2011, 06:03 PM
Hey everyone, no one has been harsh - this is a very serious situation and one that should never have been allowed to happen, so I did not expect sugar coated replies.

I have had a serious chat with my grandparents, and they agree that they had been wrong in allowing Anton free range around guests - I think that this has really opened their eyes to the reality of his problem, as they were not present when he first snapped and caught someone.

We have agreed that it is absolutely necessary for Anton to be separated from visitors for the time being; we are in the process of contacting a behaviourist to assess and give us the necessary help and guidance to help control the problem. Any resocialisation attempts will only be carried out with the help of a professional so that we don't confuse poor Anton any more than we already have. We have agreed that total consistency is key - though it is shameful that we have all agreed on this so late.

At C&D: I had a very long think about rehoming to a GSD-savvy home yesterday and also spoke to my grandparents about it - which really hit them hard. We would all be heartbroken to see him go, but, more importantly, we can't let him down like this again - despite his issues, he is a brilliant dog that does not deserve to be pts for our stupid mistakes. However, we will see the behaviourist and see where to go from there; we are determined never to put him or any person in danger due to stupid choices again.
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wilbar
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11-03-2011, 08:33 AM
Originally Posted by Kiing View Post
Hey everyone, no one has been harsh - this is a very serious situation and one that should never have been allowed to happen, so I did not expect sugar coated replies.

I have had a serious chat with my grandparents, and they agree that they had been wrong in allowing Anton free range around guests - I think that this has really opened their eyes to the reality of his problem, as they were not present when he first snapped and caught someone.

We have agreed that it is absolutely necessary for Anton to be separated from visitors for the time being; we are in the process of contacting a behaviourist to assess and give us the necessary help and guidance to help control the problem. Any resocialisation attempts will only be carried out with the help of a professional so that we don't confuse poor Anton any more than we already have. We have agreed that total consistency is key - though it is shameful that we have all agreed on this so late.

At C&D: I had a very long think about rehoming to a GSD-savvy home yesterday and also spoke to my grandparents about it - which really hit them hard. We would all be heartbroken to see him go, but, more importantly, we can't let him down like this again - despite his issues, he is a brilliant dog that does not deserve to be pts for our stupid mistakes. However, we will see the behaviourist and see where to go from there; we are determined never to put him or any person in danger due to stupid choices again.
Brilliant response ~ well done for convincing your grandparents to get the help they need & for recognising that the priority is to keep everyone (especially Anton) safe. I'm glad you didn't think we were being too harsh ~ I think everyone who replied only had Anton's & your grandparents wellbeing at heart.

Anton definitely does deserve the best help you can all give him. If the problems are only with visitors in the home, & he's fine out & about, then it's likely that it'll be fairly easily fixable. But worst scenario is that the problem can be managed ~ by keeping him away from visitors .

One of my dogs was very scared, nervous & bit aggressive towards strangers, even out on walks. But I've managed the problem & retrained her so that she's absolutely fine now & I have no problems with anyone, in fact, she often actively seeks out people to say hello too BUT she's still not very happy with strangers coming to the house. This is because the house is her "safe haven", it's where she can relax, sleep, eat & be completely carefree. So by strangers coming into her "safe haven" & maybe compromising her safety, this is possibly the worst scenaro for her. So I understand why she's like this & can manage the situation ~ only her friends & "doggy" people get to come into the house ~ with other strangers who are only there briefly, I will shut her in another room while they're there. That way everyone's happy & safe

Good luck with Anton ~ I hope it all works out for you all & I look forward hearing about his progress.
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Moobli
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11-03-2011, 10:06 AM
You must be commended on your response and also on the action you are taking on Anton's behalf. I wish you all the luck in the world, but, as Wilbar said, the worst case scenario is just to keep Anton away from visitors in the future, therefore avoiding any future conflict.
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ClaireandDaisy
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11-03-2011, 12:11 PM
Anton is lucky to have you in his corner. I hope it goes well.
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Vicki
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11-03-2011, 01:07 PM
An absolutely brilliant decision - it gladdens my heart that there are people like you out there that "do the right" thing.

Well done!
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Helena54
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11-03-2011, 01:31 PM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
Sorry to read about this.

I think it's very clear that your grandparents should have done what you do - keep visitors safe. Their method would have caused great conflict in Anton and therefore, almost certainly, the bite .

Exactly! THEY are in charge, and they should have done everything in their power to keep visitors safe, not just "assume" that he would be ok. I have the same thing with my youngster, who I have brought UP myself from a puppy, she is the same with sudden movements which might threaten her space, after they've been here a while, so they are told NOT to make such movements, everything has to be done slooooowly and calmly, and it's good if they could warn me first if they want to suddenly get up or reach over, so that I will be in charge of my dog when they do so. My situation isn't as dire as yours though, but it could have been many months ago

Reprimanding him is very human, but not fair (as they set the situation up, for him to fail) and also because he will just think that he gets told off by visitors. However I guess they did this to just get him off and to move away.

As the old saying goes "never put your dog in a situation that YOU cannot control" nuff said

I agree that seeing a reputable behaviourist would be a good idea - do ensure that they know what they are doing, and that they understand up to date methods of how to help with and resolve these type of problems. If they mention punishment or pack or alpha, find someone else.

Good luck

Wys
x
It's a sorry state of affairs, you must be very upset, I know I would be. They're all very different in situations like this. My older gsd (and most that go before him) would let any visitor step over him , even in the middle of the night coz he's that way inclined, whereas my youngster is too much on the ball, and that is WHY I have to let her know when anybody comes round here, that I am in charge not her, and by you putting a muzzle on Anton then that means you are taking charge, whereas I choose to do it differently because I know her boundaries so very well having had her from a puppy.

It could be the same situation that I had here myself, whereby I didn't have enough visitors, even though I made every caller say "hi" to my dog when she was a young puppy so I wouldn't be in the position I am now with my dog going a bit OTT on their arrival. I'm sure, if King had visitors coming on a daily basis, with YOU at the helm, he'd get over this, but it'll take a lot of work on your part, on a daily, consistent basis. Good luck with everything, I hope he's not in too much trouble with that visitor I think you need to train those grandparents of yours up a bit more

ETA:Ooops (blush!) didn't read page 2 before I stormed in lol! Well done you!!!
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Moon's Mum
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11-03-2011, 06:37 PM
Sounds like you're doing all the right things and coming at this with a sensible head. Well done and good luck, I really hope you manage to sort things out for Anton. He's a very lucky dog to have people who care so much
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TabithaJ
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11-03-2011, 07:56 PM
Well done -good that you're on the case!
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Wysiwyg
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12-03-2011, 08:25 AM
Great to read your post, well done and lots of good luck with Anton
Do ensure the behaviourist is very reputable, and uses kind modern methods, or they could make it worse!

Wys
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