No justification. It's up to the owner not to put the dog in a situation where it could be endangered. I know dog senses are sharper than ours but I use my height advantage to keep my eyes open for potential problems before Jake sees them. If you're walking in an area where there are known to be snakes, then keep your eyes open for them and keep an eye on the whereabouts of your dog. Simples!

But the point is that Daddy was never going to come into contact with rattle snakes , other than for that episode .

As he and CM live in the city.

The porpose of the show was to use Daddy as a guinea pig, nothing more ..not to save his life, but simple to UP his earnings and ratings on a TV show.

Now if you condone that sort of trainer, you are welcome to him... i dont

Re- the E.Collar, with a bit of luck, they will be banned here soon..so this sort of mythical discussion of what goes on in the US will be redundant.

I don't watch CM or SE or any other so called trainer!!

The dog could have been kept on a lead or excercised in a safe area

However reading Dawn's post that the dog is 14 or whatever if he has managed to live that long without it then I am damn sure he can manage for the rest of his life without it

No. Or whips, goads, kicks, punches, ear pinches, jabbing with lighted cigarettes or any other way of causing pain. Just because you just have to press the button rather than expend energy using any of the above doesn`t make it hurt the dog less.

Thanks Dawn, I have PM'd you back. I appreciate your explanation. I still don't know how YOU know that Cesar never takes Daddy for a walk, or that Daddy will NEVER have exposure to venomous snakes. From googling, it seems that snakes are a very big problem in the States. I wonder if LA for instance is totally snake free? Some could easily have found their way into dog parks, recreation spaces etc.

I really do feel the end justified the means in this scenario. My parents had a pitbull cross, the dog's grandfather was a pure pit, and as lovely as this dog was, just like Daddy, boy he was tenacious. If we had deadly snakes in this country, that dog could quite easily have gone the same way as poor Rocco. As hateful as I think e-collars are, I would much rather Tai had to be subjected to a jolt of electricity than he was killed.

For the record, I do think in an absolute last chance scenario, the e-collar may provide a solution. However, it should be used by a proffessional trainer, supervised, and I dont think they should ever be freely available to the public.

Whilst googling about rattlers and other venomous snakes in the States, I came across a vaccination. It is fairly new, so perhaps wasn't around when this episode with Daddy was filmed. In addition, there is a time limit, so if you are outside in the wilderness of California, you might be hours away from the nearest vet. Unless you can carry the vax with you?

Or doctor, as the same will be said for the human who comes unexpectedly onto a rattler ot two.

Maybe like humans, you carry a vaccine around with you in case you meet up with any nastiest.


the trouble is from what we see, from the tv and other forums, the e.collar is widely used in the states for all manner of training, they see (or many Americans) it as just another tool to use..

So comparing the use of them in the UK to the way they are used in the US , is not going to show a true justification in their use.

I think I have already commented about it could be possible for these snakes to get into the dog parks and recreational areas of cities like LA. Promethean would be able to answer this one I am sure.

I just am struggling here to know how YOU absolutely 100%know that Daddy is never going to be at any risk ever of venomous snake attack. Knowing what pitbulls are like, I find this almost impossible to believe.

Don't misunderstand me Jackbox, I hate the things, I think they are cruel, but in this particular case, I think the use on one was justified.

I haven't seen the Dog Whisperer episode that is being discussed, but to answer the original question about whether the use of an ecollar can ever be justified. I think it can. That said, only as a last option for a sheep chasing or worrying dog.

From previous similar discussions, I know that many on here will say that for such a dog the only solution is to either keep it on a lead for life or else rehome to a sheep-free area. Neither of these options are a preferable solution IMO.