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elaineb
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Location: Runcorn Cheshire UK
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19-08-2008, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by Stormey View Post
I agree with you about shows. There is no doubt hundreds of decent caring people who show but its the for want of a better word scum who appeared just makes my blood boil and make me want to stay well clear.

Im still sat here trying to figure out what some of the people were thinking.

It's snobbery and elitism and a total clique that the Kc cowtow too. It makes me sick.
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hectorsmum
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Location: Derbyshire.....the walking county
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19-08-2008, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by Stormey View Post
I agree with you about shows. There is no doubt hundreds of decent caring people who show but its the for want of a better word scum who appeared just makes my blood boil and make me want to stay well clear.

Im still sat here trying to figure out what some of the people were thinking.
MONEY!!!!

rich old women thinking they know better. HA !!
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Reisu
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19-08-2008, 09:54 PM
The whole thing is ridiculous. If you'd cull a healthy puppy because it's spina bifida isn't pronounced enough you have no business owning dogs, let alone breeding them. And that woman with the stud cav, what hole did she crawl out of? the other woman put it very well, she might as well have taken each affected pup he'd sired and beaten them herself. I don't know how anyone could happily take the stud fee and keep on using him.
I hope this sparks some change at least I thought the older versions of the dogs they showed looked much nicer, especially the pug! The way that poor thing's spine bent... And that peke at Crufts, they both just looked.. wrong. I've got nothing against either breed but why the breed clubs accept and encourage breeding dogs that must be so uncomfortable all of the time is unfathomable to me. Give me a nice healthy mongrel any day of the week. I'd hate to have to choose a purebred pup if they were the top breeders and their best dogs, where do you go when the breed clubs support that kind of ill health and deformity?

I thought of you and Loki too when that boxer was fitting LS, I've got nothing but admiration for you both for having to live with that
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BonniesMummy
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19-08-2008, 09:55 PM
i cant stop crying. my chest actually hurts like heartbreak.

my beautiful beautiful cavalier bonnie has Syringomyelia, we never knew. we took her to the vet when we adopted her aged 1, but they didnt know what it was.

SOMEHOW my amazing dog is fourteen years old...
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Borderdawn
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19-08-2008, 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
That's just how Loki sounds . Course he isn't KC registered but there is in-breeding in his lines.
Originally Posted by shiba View Post


I thought of you whilst i watching the tv. You poor thing i don't know how you cope.....
So did I.
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shiba
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19-08-2008, 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by Sophie* View Post
I have a question - for those who did buy a KC registered puppy, was it health tested? My toy poodle was not.
Yes, both parents have fantastic hip scores, there hearts where tested and clear and they both had dna testing to rule out cystineria (sp?)

I drove 8 hours to pick up my girl, as on paper she should be fantastic.

Just thought i would add she also has an undershot jaw.

That came from somewhere!! Surely

It may seem like it, but i am not knocking her breeder, i am knocking the practices that have gone on in breeds for many years.

Thought this programme showed them well.

I also think that alot of shows are fixed and a bit of a con...... imo its if your face fits.
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kristian
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19-08-2008, 10:03 PM
Haven't been on here for a long time but thought i'd drop by to see what the comments on this programme were! i know there are people on here who i've had debates with before about the Kennel club and i'm interested to read their views? There are people on here who think it's right to breed to the breed standard even if it means health problems so lets hear the defence!
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maryann
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19-08-2008, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by kristian View Post
Haven't been on here for a long time but thought i'd drop by to see what the comments on this programme were! i know there are people on here who i've had debates with before about the Kennel club and i'm interested to read their views? There are people on here who think it's right to breed to the breed standard even if it means health problems so lets hear the defence!
theres NO defence....... IMO
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vickinicks
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19-08-2008, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by kristian View Post
Haven't been on here for a long time but thought i'd drop by to see what the comments on this programme were! i know there are people on here who i've had debates with before about the Kennel club and i'm interested to read their views? There are people on here who think it's right to breed to the breed standard even if it means health problems so lets hear the defence!
you read my mind!!!!!
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Azz
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19-08-2008, 10:09 PM
I must say I didn't like the sensationalist angle, and I feel that the program makers were privy to information that they used to trip up some people on the program (eg the Ridgeback claims - is that evidence new?) but I am glad these issues have been raised and brought into the mainstream.

Many of us have been saying we need tighter controls on breeding for a while, especially to cut out unethical breeders - so maybe we can move forward now this has been brought into the public eye.

Anyway, here are a few of my opinions on some of the main issues raised.

Breeds not looking how they used to

We should not forget that some breeders were 'forced' to change the type of some breeds, otherwise they would not have fit into a pet environment very well, and indeed in this day and age, they would be subject to being banned. Breeds in their 'original form' such as the Bull Terrier, Staff, Ridgeback even, would not be allowed today because of their original use. So dogs like Staffs and Bull Terriers have actually been made less 'athletic' so they are not as powerful or 'fit' as they used to be. In these cases it seems you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

However, two wrongs don't make a right, and I am all for healthier more athletic dogs (just wish the DDA didn't add to the pressure put on these breeds).

I am also against breeding extreme features purely for cosmetic reasons, especially when they impair the health of the animal. Classic cases here are the Bulldog, pug etc and this is something we have debated on Dogsey many times before - so nothing new there. Although again, I think it is good this has gone mainstream and put a bit of pressure on the KC to be a little more pro active about it.

In-Breeding

This is something I have always been against, and is one of the reasons I would never get a 'new' breed again (Rocky has had his fair share of problems bless him).

In-breeding is necessary when creating a new breed as the breeders need to enforce type - i.e. so the dogs breed true, meaning offspring look just like their parents. In the old days offspring that didn't look like their parent were culled. I am not in favour of culling, but do acknowledge it has happened and as a result of the breeders efforts we have the many breeds we have today. Hence I see the difficulties in creating new breeds today.

I agree that inbreeding should be made illegal, but again, only because recent evidence has shown the true extent of the problems that can arise.

Unhealthy dogs winning shows

This is a difficult one. Obviously in an ideal world the answer would be no. But how would you police it? Some tests cannot be carried out until the dogs are adults. Anyone have any suggestions on this?


Unhealthy dogs that have won shows to go on to breed

This is a big no from me!! Only healthy animals should be bred from, without doubt!!
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