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Velvetboxers
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08-05-2011, 02:02 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Rats that are trapped or poisoned don't have a great death nor do foxes.
Birds that are shot are often not killed outright, they are then picked up by a dog before being 'dispatched' not a great death.
Animals are bundled into lorries, driven away,herded out into what must be an awful place for them and then slaughtered. We are not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
As for racism...'we' don't like what they do..... Listen to yourself.
What on earth has all tgat got to do with ritual horse killing!
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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08-05-2011, 02:28 PM
imo I dont like the idea of animals bleeding to death - no matter why they are killed
I think if we kill animals for our use we should do it the kindest way possible

all races and religions are guilty of not killing animals as kindly as they can as far as I can see
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Steve
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08-05-2011, 02:28 PM
Anyone can raise their own animals and slaughter them (provided its done humanely) in their garden/garage/outbuilding/yard etc for their own consumption,but i didnt think you could if the meat is to be sold as it has to be verified as disease free by someone who knows what they're looking for.

Infact i remember watching a programme on BBC2 a year or two back with a family who went self sufficent and raised two pigs.A friend shot them in the yard and said this was perfectly legal provided for their own consumption and not for sale.

If the animals are of the hoofed variety you need relevant paperwork to transport them (foot and mouth disease) so unsure how they can get away with it with horses which will be processed for meat?
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IsoChick
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08-05-2011, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
If the animals are of the hoofed variety you need relevant paperwork to transport them (foot and mouth disease) so unsure how they can get away with it with horses which will be processed for meat?
But horses aren't classed as livestock, in the way that pigs/cows/etc are...

You don't need to be DEFRA reg. to have a horse, neither do you need a Movement Order to move them around (like you do with pigs/sheep/cows)...

If the horses aren't being slaughtered at a registered slaughterhouse (which I'm assuming they aren't) then, as at any horse sale, you pay your money, load them into your trailer/horsebox and then take them away. If you then take them to an unreg. slaughterhouse, or your back yard, and do the deed there - there is nothing to stop you...

I could easily buy a horse and take it home and slaughter it for my families consumption, and I think, technically, it'd all be above the law. Not that I would, though.
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wildmoor
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08-05-2011, 04:10 PM
There are many countries in Europe that eat horse meat such as France and Italy that are non muslim
All Halal food establishment whether an abbatoir, a take away, restaurant or shop have to be registered with the environmental health
I live in an area where 1/5 of the population are muslim and I do buy meat from a halal butcher - never seen horse meat on sale - it is predominately chicken & sheep some lamb, beef and goat occassionaly turkey
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smokeybear
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08-05-2011, 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
It was brought to my attention that anyone can buy a pony at a horse sale and take it home, slit its throat and sell it as Halal meat Well anyone that is a muslim of course.

Apparently it is perfectly legal so long as you are pointing it east and saying a prayer over it to allah It is happening in this country right now. (Saves slaughterhouse costs)

Cattle, sheep and goats have to have a holding number to buy them so there is some tracability but with ponies they do not.

I was quite shocked.
1 I have no issues with anyone eating any type of livestock provided it is reared correctly, treated for parasites, and killed humanely, be that dog, cat, horse, cow, pig or sheep.

2 I have absolutely no problem with either Kosher or Halal meat both of which are slaughtered by TRAINED people who revere life and pray before thanking God for providing them with food.

I lived in the Middle East for 15 years and I can assure you that meat raised in the region and killed in this way is FAR healthier and kinder both to the animal itself and those who may be eating them.

First of all death is very quick, no animal has to be packed into an overcrowded lorry, transported for miles with others NOT of its flock/herd etc and then offloaded into a place which stinks of fear and blood!

Secondly it is very quick.

Thirdly if you think that ALL animals that are killed via our traditional methods suffer no issues you are sadly mistaken; animals are often insufficiently stunned or shocked before they go through the various processes which result in their ending up on our tables.

It is STRICTLY forbidden by both Jewish and Islamic law to feed these animals with other dead animals, therefore, no animal is at risk of contracting BSE and anyone who has eaten such meat will not be at risk of contracting a related ilness such as CJD!

The reason for such killing has nothing to do with saving money!

You may prefer not to eat it, but please do not accuse specific iindividual religions/culturesnationalities of animal cruelty when a) we in the UK do not have unstained hands and b) until and unless you know the facts.

When the BSE crisis emerged I ONLY ate HALAL meat as that was the ONLY guarantee that I would not be at risk!
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Jackie
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08-05-2011, 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
1 I have no issues with anyone eating any type of livestock provided it is reared correctly, treated for parasites, and killed humanely, be that dog, cat, horse, cow, pig or sheep.

2 I have absolutely no problem with either Kosher or Halal meat both of which are slaughtered by TRAINED people who revere life and pray before thanking God for providing them with food.

I lived in the Middle East for 15 years and I can assure you that meat raised in the region and killed in this way is FAR healthier and kinder both to the animal itself and those who may be eating them.

First of all death is very quick, no animal has to be packed into an overcrowded lorry, transported for miles with others NOT of its flock/herd etc and then offloaded into a place which stinks of fear and blood!

Secondly it is very quick.

Thirdly if you think that ALL animals that are killed via our traditional methods suffer no issues you are sadly mistaken; animals are often insufficiently stunned or shocked before they go through the various processes which result in their ending up on our tables.

It is STRICTLY forbidden by both Jewish and Islamic law to feed these animals with other dead animals, therefore, no animal is at risk of contracting BSE and anyone who has eaten such meat will not be at risk of contracting a related ilness such as CJD!

The reason for such killing has nothing to do with saving money!

You may prefer not to eat it, but please do not accuse specific iindividual religions/culturesnationalities of animal cruelty when a) we in the UK do not have unstained hands and b) until and unless you know the facts.

When the BSE crisis emerged I ONLY ate HALAL meat as that was the ONLY guarantee that I would not be at risk!
How does eating only halal meat ensure they were free from BSE?

As for preferring not to eat it, my point is, that in many cases we dont know we are eating it.

I choose not to eat it , as I make my choice in eating free range meat.

I go to the supermarket and make my choice, as I do in many aspects of life.

What I object to is being sold halal meat without my knowledge.
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smokeybear
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08-05-2011, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
How does eating only halal meat ensure they were free from BSE?

As for preferring not to eat it, my point is, that in many cases we dont know we are eating it.

I choose not to eat it , as I make my choice in eating free range meat.

I go to the supermarket and make my choice, as I do in many aspects of life.

What I object to is being sold halal meat without my knowledge.
Cattle destined for the halal meat market is not fed dead animals!The cause of BSE was feeding dead sheep and poultry to cattle!

The term Halal does not refer SOLELY to method of slaughter! Halal = allowed, Haram = forbidden.

Of course you should be able to make an informed choice, I completely agree, just you can choose to eat organic or not.
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TabithaJ
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08-05-2011, 07:20 PM
SMOKEY BEAR makes some great points.

Just to add that meat is only Kosher if the animal is killed quickly with one cut to the neck - and the knife has to be 'pure', i.e. no nicks in it or flaws.

Also any animal that has died from disease can not be kosher.

It is not a prayer being said that makes an animal Kosher. I can't speak for Halal food as I'm not sure. Although both Kosher and Halal are similar there are some significant differences. Muslims will often eat Kosher meat as the rules governing it are very strict. Jewish people cannot eat Halal though, as it is somewhat less strict.

I agree with those who protest supermarkets selling us Halal meat - without telling us.
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Dobermann
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08-05-2011, 07:27 PM
I do think that people should be allowed to express their views and that disagreeing with something is not necessarily meaning they are racists etc

I also think people should be far better informed of what they are eating etc...

Someone told me that there is something that makes beef bad for us (or at least not as good for us) due to the way we slaughter here - its to do with the stress hormones released into the cows body just before death.....I may be getting this confused/wrong way round?

Just wondering if anyone has heard/knows more about this?
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