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Borderdawn
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12-01-2010, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54
Something else I have noted since I've been lead walking this week with free running, is that Zena is happy to sleep when we get back, whereas free running alone doesn't tire her out, the adrenalin is still flowing when we get back and she's quite manic in fact sometimes, so that also tells me something!
I see that as her being more stressed on a lead than off it, more exhausting for her. Walking does not tire a dog out, my dogs can "trot" 8 miles at the side of my bicycle and never break stride, they are not tired when they come home though because they are used to it and relaxed whilst doing it. Something different will always tire a dog out more quickly than something its more relaxed about.
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Lizzy23
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12-01-2010, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by youngstevie View Post
I laughed at this...soz, but it is a common mistake, and I agree the ones off lead, turn walking on lead into a nightmare. We had this with Bruce so I went back to basics...blaming myself....I started walking him alone at first, then with Skye and then all three, he's realising now that when on lead he has to behave, but I can see (been there) what your saying, as he always used to start playing up on lead which in turn started Skye off. we looked like demented nutters walking down the road....thankfully that has been resolved now
very common mistake and don't apologise, we actually spent that long keeping meg close off lead that when it came to starting her beating we had to teach her to work away and on that note am going to have some lunch and take them all out individually to start this lead walking
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kazer
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12-01-2010, 01:16 PM
Ours are on the lead most of the time - morning and evening walks mainly because being greyhounds, if they saw a cat or squirrel, they would be gone.

We are lucky in that about 5-10 mins from home, there is a council field totally fenced in to about 7 foot high with a single gate on, about the size of a sunday league football pitch (if you know what I mean) and we get up early on Saturday and Sunday at around 8ish when there is not many people about and let ours off for 10 mins while they run round chasing and play fighting each other. When it's light nights, they get this about 4-5 nights a week.

We use this time to help with recall and they are getting better with it, but we think that they will be only off lead like enclosed areas like this as they would just be gone if something small and furry came into sight.
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Hali
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12-01-2010, 01:18 PM
My immediate response was 'yes' but it does depend on your definition of 'need'.

They don't need it like they need food, water and companionship and some dogs really don't need it at all.
But generally, for a balanced life, I think it is important.

My dogs get a combination of different things (though probably not enough lead walking). We do some training in the house/garden and play games which they definitely enjoy (Hoki more than Stumpy). On walks they have 'free time' where they go off and do their own thing, we spend part playing ball and sometimes (not every day) we do a bit of training - e.g. just calling them to heel for a couple of minutes before they go off again. But when I see Stumpy doing zoomies at full pelt just for the joy of running, it is definitely something I would not wish to deprive her of.

I was interested though in Ramble's comment about off-lead walking being stressful for a dog (though I haven't taken account of the context in which this was said) because to my mind its completely the opposite - its a way for them to unwind particularly after having had to use their brains. Interestingly on that police dog programme the two working spaniels were shown free running during their break and their handler said a similar thing.

Whether it has to be every day I think depends on the individual circumstances.

I also don't think it necessarily matters as to whether it is out on a walk or in some large enclosed area (sufficient for them to run at full speed if they want) and of course as dogs get older, they may not feel the need to run for as long or as far.
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labradork
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12-01-2010, 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
I have a fair amount of experience with Labs and I certainly wouldn't have them down as a breed that plays rough....
I don't think dogs should play rough when out as often it ends up uncontrolled and problems begin.
Tango hunts. She goes into hunter gatherer mode. Trouble is she wants to hunt and gather small furry dogs. Should I let her...as at least then she would be happy and being a dog?
Guess our experiences of Labs are different then, as mine have always played rough and hard. The only other breed I can think of that really appreciates their full-on style of play are Staffies.

As for hunting, I think you are taking it out of context a bit. If your dog wants to 'hunt' (and presumably hurt?) small dogs, then obviously that is not hunting behaviour like I am talking about.
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Ramble
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12-01-2010, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by Hali View Post
My immediate response was 'yes' but it does depend on your definition of 'need'.

They don't need it like they need food, water and companionship and some dogs really don't need it at all.
But generally, for a balanced life, I think it is important.

My dogs get a combination of different things (though probably not enough lead walking). We do some training in the house/garden and play games which they definitely enjoy (Hoki more than Stumpy). On walks they have 'free time' where they go off and do their own thing, we spend part playing ball and sometimes (not every day) we do a bit of training - e.g. just calling them to heel for a couple of minutes before they go off again. But when I see Stumpy doing zoomies at full pelt just for the joy of running, it is definitely something I would not wish to deprive her of.

I was interested though in Ramble's comment about off-lead walking being stressful for a dog (though I haven't taken account of the context in which this was said) because to my mind its completely the opposite - its a way for them to unwind particularly after having had to use their brains. Interestingly on that police dog programme the two working spaniels were shown free running during their break and their handler said a similar thing.
Whether it has to be every day I think depends on the individual circumstances.

I also don't think it necessarily matters as to whether it is out on a walk or in some large enclosed area (sufficient for them to run at full speed if they want) and of course as dogs get older, they may not feel the need to run for as long or as far.
Okay...the stress thing. Stress here taken to mean hyper with high adrenalin levels.
If a dog is free run in a park regularly (or the same field) it develops an expectation on the way to said field/park. It's excitement level begins to rise. Often this can be triggered just by the owner putting on their shoes.
When the dog arrives at the park and the lead is unclipped there is then a surge of adrenalin...which is fed throughout the walk as the dog does something exciting/rewarding. When dogs meet up in the park for a play then, they do so when they are hyped and that is often why problems can arise with recall and social interaction.
Of course not all 'stress' is bad stress and some stress is actually good for you...but it can take a while for the dog's adrenalin levels to settle just as it can for us. Too much adrenalin too often isn't good.

I am not saying that dogs that are free run all the time are neurotic nightmares that are 'stressed out man' but often dogs that are free run all the time are hyped and display other issues.

I was sceptical myself when I first heard this, but having tried things out with Cosmo...I now totally believe it. Ideally for him he would be offlead and chasing a toy the whole walk....thing is the more he does it the more hyped he gets and the less tired he is after walks.We can walk and run him more and more but his adrenalin levels get so high he finds it harder and harder to settle. Now we think more about the type of walks he gets and he is much happier (not that he wasn't already).

I know it is a concept people won't like as I didn't initially...but truly there is something in it.I am NOT saying dogs should not be exercised offlead because they get stressed, but I am saying that a) some dogs are better not being exercised offlead and b) being exercised in the same way everyday in the same place even if it is offlead is not necessarily better for a dog than an onlead walk. Not ALL offlead exercise is good....just like not all onlead exercise is good.



The question is do dogs NEED offlead exercise and my answer is NO. They need food, water, shelter and comanionship/training and exercise. What they need is a quality walk...be it onlead or off.
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Ramble
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12-01-2010, 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
Guess our experiences of Labs are different then, as mine have always played rough and hard. The only other breed I can think of that really appreciates their full-on style of play are Staffies.

As for hunting, I think you are taking it out of context a bit. If your dog wants to 'hunt' (and presumably hurt?) small dogs, then obviously that is not hunting behaviour like I am talking about.
Yep obviously totally different experience of Labs.
I don't think I am taking hunting out of context given Tango's issues lie in her working gundog past.
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MissE
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12-01-2010, 01:35 PM
As I've read, I've been thinking..Do dogs need a good run?

I suppose the answer depends on two things - your definition of Need.. and the individual dog.

I personally don't see off lead as a need as in a necessity of life such as food and shelter.. but something that is desirable for the quality of life for a lot of dogs.

I didn't say all, because of my own experience with Missy.
We can and do let her off where we know she'll be safe - but she doesn't run around like a loon. She isn't interested.
Her nose is down and she's sniffing and following a track. She's not fussed to play with other dogs. What she does off lead she could happily do on a long lead attached to a harness.

Now my first jack, Spotty , she loved to run and play offlead and she got it daily. To her it was great, head up, running free.
Two different dogs, two different ways of being happy
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Ramble
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12-01-2010, 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by MissE View Post
As I've read, I've been thinking..Do dogs need a good run?

I suppose the answer depends on two things - your definition of Need.. and the individual dog.

I personally don't see off lead as a need as in a necessity of life such as food and shelter.. but something that is desirable for the quality of life for a lot of dogs.

I didn't say all, because of my own experience with Missy.
We can and do let her off where we know she'll be safe - but she doesn't run around like a loon. She isn't interested.
Her nose is down and she's sniffing and following a track. She's not fussed to play with other dogs. What she does off lead she could happily do on a long lead attached to a harness.

Now my first jack, Spotty , she loved to run and play offlead and she got it daily. To her it was great, head up, running free.
Two different dogs, two different ways of being happy
And an owner who knows their dog well and gives them what that dog NEEDS
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mishflynn
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12-01-2010, 01:41 PM
I think in ALL Dogs a mixiture of the following is ideal.

1. Training on walks, Involving alot of Play
2.Mental stimulation in the house & out & about
3. Lead walking, to aid feet & Nails & good Manners
4. Off lead running & being dogs
5.off lead one to one walks & pack walks
6.learning to settle in the home

Mine get a mixture of the above , not all everyday. Too much free running can be a rod for your own back & can make you seem un important. Mine are pretty well balanced, nuts but well balance.
i suppose it depends what you want out of your dog.

Obvisley the above would depend on the physical state of the dog & what it required.

With a dog that needed work i would do lots of one 2 one walks, with play & training, Building up to Flexi walking, long line training & off lead training in a safe area such as tennis courts, working up to off lead work with a steady dog with a good recall.
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