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mishflynn
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15-03-2008, 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
When Mary Ray found out Quincy was a carrier, did she stop using him at stud?
No she only used him on DNA tested Clear bitches, COMPLETLEY ethical
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Borderdawn
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15-03-2008, 10:18 AM
Originally Posted by colliemad View Post
but we are not talking about HD or PRA we are talking about CEA which is not a progressive disease. It does not get any worse over time. If a dog is mildly affected as a pup then it is mildly affected when it is old it does not change over time and it will have normal vision throughout it's life. A mildly affected dog is not suitable to breed from obviously though as the disease would be more severe if it produced affected offspring. Since the DNA test became available breeders have no excuse for producing affected pups but before that they could only have a standard examination done on the dog by an opthalmologist, if they were a carrier for the disease that would not show up and they would be passed. It was not possible to know whether a dog carried the disease unless it was mated to another carrier and then produced affected pups. It was not something that was done deliberately, the test was not available at that time to show which dogs were carriers. It was perfectly possible to breed several litters from a dog and never produce any affected pups only to find they were a carrier at a later date when the DNA test came in, it would just have been luck that they were never put to a carrier bitch
I dont believe you said that! It seems you dont mind if a disease is "mild" its ok to pass it on is it? NOT in my book it isnt!!!
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Mahooli
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15-03-2008, 10:39 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
I dont believe you said that! It seems you dont mind if a disease is "mild" its ok to pass it on is it? NOT in my book it isnt!!!
Then from what you're saying is that only dogs genetically clear should be bred from? If that is so then that really is shooting yourself in the foot. Just because a dog is clear from one thing doesn't mean it is clear of another which may not have a test yet. It is far better to use all available lines with genetic testing to ensure there is sufficient genetic diversity and that at the worse they are carriers than chuck out every dog that is a carrier.
Becky
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mishflynn
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15-03-2008, 11:31 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
I dont believe you said that! It seems you dont mind if a disease is "mild" its ok to pass it on is it? NOT in my book it isnt!!!

She isnt saying that, CEA can be mild & then again can be horrific. Quincy does not have CEA he does not have a mild form of it,he is "clinically" ok, he is a carrier. There is a difference.

What colliemad is saying in the "scheme " of things its not in its mild form as bad as say Epilepsy.

Quincy will never ever produce a affected pup again, thanks to DNA testing.
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colliemad
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15-03-2008, 11:53 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
I dont believe you said that! It seems you dont mind if a disease is "mild" its ok to pass it on is it? NOT in my book it isnt!!!
I did not say it was ok to pass it on but in it's mild form CEA does not cause a problem for the dog and as I and others have said it was not passed on deliberately. The dog had all the tests that were available at the time and until he was unlucky enough to mated with another carrier there would have been no way of knowing that he was a carrier himself. Quincy does not have CEA, he is a carrier of the disease and cannot produce affected pups unless he is mated to another carrier! Do you even know what CEA is dawn? With your opinion then I guess you will never breed from your dogs as they too may be carrying something that cannot yet be tested for or even has yet to be discovered, taking the chance on only currently available tests obviously is not acceptable to you
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colliemad
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15-03-2008, 11:56 AM
Originally Posted by mishflynn View Post
She isnt saying that, CEA can be mild & then again can be horrific. Quincy does not have CEA he does not have a mild form of it,he is "clinically" ok, he is a carrier. There is a difference.

What colliemad is saying in the "scheme " of things its not in its mild form as bad as say Epilepsy.

Quincy will never ever produce a affected pup again, thanks to DNA testing.

Exactly!! Frankly I would rather risk having a pup that was a carrier for CEA than one that was clear of the disease but may be epileptic!
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colliemad
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15-03-2008, 12:01 PM
Originally Posted by Mahooli View Post
and that's exactly the situation Ellie's breeder was in. He always eye tested his breeding stock and it was only when the DNA test came in and he did that that he discovered Ellie's dad was a carrier who was then subsequently neutered and never used again, however, he had never produced any affected puppies!
That doesn't mean he was an irresponsible breeder because he did the relevant test that was available at the time.
Becky
So in fact breeding from him wasn't unethical, he had the available tests done and he was lucky that he obviously never went to any bitches that were also carriers. I know of an ISDS reg BC that has sired several litters, none of the pups have had problems yet he has recently been tested as a carrier for TNS which came as a bit of a surprise to the owner. As I have already said I personally wouldn't breed from a dog that was a carrier for CEA as I know the lines I like are available from clear parents but I would be a hypocrite if I said nobody else could do it as Sol was out of a CEA carrier bitch.
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Mahooli
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15-03-2008, 12:03 PM
Unethical is not testing at all and not caring but if you do all the available tests you can then that is all you can do.
Becky
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colliemad
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15-03-2008, 12:46 PM
Originally Posted by Mahooli View Post
Unethical is not testing at all and not caring but if you do all the available tests you can then that is all you can do.
Becky

Totally agree!! The breeder you mention did that, so did mary with quincy and countless others that found themselves in a similar position. Your breeder was lucky in that he never produced an affected pup but had he done so it would have been no fault of his as he had had all available tests done at the time and as soon as the DNA test was available he had that done too
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Mahooli
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15-03-2008, 12:48 PM
Which is why all mine are done and I had to make sure Ellie went to a definate clear as she is a carrier.
Becky
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