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Tass
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03-05-2012, 12:34 PM
Originally Posted by bijou View Post
Moobli - I have not personally assessed the two Mali's - the " not suitable for Pets " description came from West Mercia Police themselves - like you I think that a commited experienced ACTIVE home could work well with these two and we are doing all we can to source homes like this but they are as rare as hens teeth - as to why they were not handed back to their breeder ? - well that's a question I'd like answered too !!



..ah yes indeed !! - here is one of his ancestors showing the wonderful quality Bandol and his progeny passed down

That is a gorgeous dog

As to the "not suitable for pets" I know you have not been informed why, but dogs can fail police training for lack of nerve, which could make them unsuitable for pets, particularly if they have proven too nervous but have started bite training i.e you can have a shy/sharp sort of dog.

They can fail if their tracking isn't up to standard - can't see a "not pet" problem there.

They can also fail if they are keen to bite but reluctant to let go. If a professional cannot control that how can they assume a pet owner will be able to safely do so?

I knew one potential police dog that failed as it didn't like to search dark buildings - no good for the police but not a problem for a pet.

Maybe the temperament is not steady enough for the police so the dog's reactions are unreliable?

Sadly sufficient exercise and having a job do not resolve all dog problems.

Having said that I knew a lab that was turned down by the police as "untrainable" who went on to a pet home where they did eventually (after a lot of very hard work which the police would not have had any reason to do, when another dog would do the job more easily) manage to train him and he lived a long happy life.

I also knew of a GSD offered to the Police as a gift dog at 1 year who was not accepted, after a two week trail, as he "was too soft", who came back with a dog aggression problem and who, as a confident controlling 2 year old, had develop a human-directed aggression problem, including stalking victims. Maybe he was a late developer? You can only assess the dog as it appears to be at that point in time.

Obviously knowing more about why they have been assessed as "not suitable for pets" would make it clearer what sort of home might be suitable, although on the face of it where do you place a BSD who is not suited to police work or to a pet home?

Even if the dogs just need much more time on training to make the grade than the police want to put in, why would a serious competitor want to take on a dog needing more time than average, when they can achieve the same with another dog more easily, and possibly more reliably, and move on to training other exercises?

There is also a view than training may put a veneer over temperament problems but cannot fundamentally change temperament and so a dog will be inclined to revert to temperament, if under sufficient pressure, regardless of training.

Obviously just speculation and musings without knowing the reason for the "not pet" assessment.
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bigdogs
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03-05-2012, 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by Tass View Post
That is a gorgeous dog

As to the "not suitable for pets" I know you have not been informed why, but dogs can fail police training for lack of nerve, which could make them unsuitable for pets, particularly if they have proven too nervous but have started bite training i.e you can have a shy/sharp sort of dog.

They can fail if their tracking isn't up to standard - can't see a "not pet" problem there.

They can also fail if they are keen to bite but reluctant to let go. If a professional cannot control that how can they assume a pet owner will be able to safely do so?

I knew one potential police dog that failed as it didn't like to search dark buildings - no good for the police but not a problem for a pet.

Maybe the temperament is not steady enough for the police so the dog's reactions are unreliable?

Sadly sufficient exercise and having a job do not resolve all dog problems.

Having said that I knew a lab that was turned down by the police as "untrainable" who went on to a pet home where they did eventually (after a lot of very hard work which the police would not have had any reason to do, when another dog would do the job more easily) manage to train him and he lived a long happy life.

I also knew of a GSD offered to the Police as a gift dog at 1 year who was not accepted, after a two week trail, as he "was too soft", who came back with a dog aggression problem and who, as a confident controlling 2 year old, had develop a human-directed aggression problem, including stalking victims. Maybe he was a late developer? You can only assess the dog as it appears to be at that point in time.

Obviously knowing more about why they have been assessed as "not suitable for pets" would make it clearer what sort of home might be suitable, although on the face of it where do you place a BSD who is not suited to police work or to a pet home?

Even if the dogs just need much more time on training to make the grade than the police want to put in, why would a serious competitor want to take on a dog needing more time than average, when they can achieve the same with another dog more easily, and possibly more reliably, and move on to training other exercises?

There is also a view than training may put a veneer over temperament problems but cannot fundamentally change temperament and so a dog will be inclined to revert to temperament, if under sufficient pressure, regardless of training.

Obviously just speculation and musings without knowing the reason for the "not pet" assessment.
I gave money for a dog turned down by the police and did a bit with him over 6 month he is now a police dog in the u.s.a funny old life is the dogs but very good post
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Moobli
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03-05-2012, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by bijou View Post
Moobli - I have not personally assessed the two Mali's - the " not suitable for Pets " description came from West Mercia Police themselves - like you I think that a commited experienced ACTIVE home could work well with these two and we are doing all we can to source homes like this but they are as rare as hens teeth - as to why they were not handed back to their breeder ? - well that's a question I'd like answered too !!



..ah yes indeed !! - here is one of his ancestors showing the wonderful quality Bandol and his progeny passed down

It must be extremely frustrating Would the police turn down committed active pet homes for these dogs, or are the dogs now in the care of the rescue?

That is a stunning dog, is he yours?
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Moobli
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03-05-2012, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by Tass View Post
That is a gorgeous dog

As to the "not suitable for pets" I know you have not been informed why, but dogs can fail police training for lack of nerve, which could make them unsuitable for pets, particularly if they have proven too nervous but have started bite training i.e you can have a shy/sharp sort of dog.

They can fail if their tracking isn't up to standard - can't see a "not pet" problem there.

They can also fail if they are keen to bite but reluctant to let go. If a professional cannot control that how can they assume a pet owner will be able to safely do so?

I knew one potential police dog that failed as it didn't like to search dark buildings - no good for the police but not a problem for a pet.

Maybe the temperament is not steady enough for the police so the dog's reactions are unreliable?

Sadly sufficient exercise and having a job do not resolve all dog problems.

Having said that I knew a lab that was turned down by the police as "untrainable" who went on to a pet home where they did eventually (after a lot of very hard work which the police would not have had any reason to do, when another dog would do the job more easily) manage to train him and he lived a long happy life.

I also knew of a GSD offered to the Police as a gift dog at 1 year who was not accepted, after a two week trail, as he "was too soft", who came back with a dog aggression problem and who, as a confident controlling 2 year old, had develop a human-directed aggression problem, including stalking victims. Maybe he was a late developer? You can only assess the dog as it appears to be at that point in time.

Obviously knowing more about why they have been assessed as "not suitable for pets" would make it clearer what sort of home might be suitable, although on the face of it where do you place a BSD who is not suited to police work or to a pet home?

Even if the dogs just need much more time on training to make the grade than the police want to put in, why would a serious competitor want to take on a dog needing more time than average, when they can achieve the same with another dog more easily, and possibly more reliably, and move on to training other exercises?

There is also a view than training may put a veneer over temperament problems but cannot fundamentally change temperament and so a dog will be inclined to revert to temperament, if under sufficient pressure, regardless of training.

Obviously just speculation and musings without knowing the reason for the "not pet" assessment.
Absolutely - and the comment "not suitable as pets" really needs to be expanded on by the person who assessed these dogs as to their reasoning why.

Many of the potential police dogs who came in to Lancs over the period when I was indirectly involved were failed for lack of nerve and lack of play drive. I don't see how that would make them unsuitable as pets, but the first option could make them only suited to experienced pet homes, especially with a breed like a Malinois.
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ljru1970
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04-05-2012, 06:03 PM
More info on the Lady & Shelley.

Danaher Animal Home are saying they were strays brought in by the dog warden, probably loose for a few weeks. Both shy, prefer women, and possibly connected. Still no reference to them being Beligians or Belgian x's.
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bigdogs
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05-05-2012, 09:48 AM



if i put him in he would eat them out of house and home in a week
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Wysiwyg
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05-05-2012, 09:52 AM
Originally Posted by bijou View Post
.......ah yes indeed !! - here is one of his ancestors showing the wonderful quality Bandol and his progeny passed down

You are so good with the photos, Bijou

Reminds me of my boy - love that dark overlay My boy was even darker though. Bandol's progeny was always just gorgeous.

Wys
x
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