What is it with you e collar people, are you so ashamed of what you are doing you have to hide behind euphemisms.

'Stim' is presumably an abbreviation for stimulation, what you really mean is electric shock so let's call a spade a spade can we and call it an electric shock, or are you afraid that will put your customers off Adam.

Im surprised there are still people out there willing to pay some one to bully their dogs with such equipment.

Re distractio proofing.

I understand it (its neccassary for e collar training too), however if the dog isn't sufficently motivated by the food/toy/whatever to work for that in a more distracting environment its pointless as all the dog practises is ignoring you.
MaNy owners have given their dogs huge amounts of time and patience and it hasn't paid off.
Many more people do not have huge amounts of time to train their dog, so what happens to these dogs? Overcrowded resuces or effective training.

Adam

well anyone that cant be bothered or doesnt have the time to have a dog and train it correctly shouldnt have one.
training is the most enjoyable part of owning a dog, working with your dog and getting that bond! not paying some one else to do it with cruel and out dated methods.

I agree training is enjoyable.
However I don't see the fun in trying for months/years to get a result. This is the situation alot of people are in.

Adam

well then my advice would be to get some one in that uses positive methods, with good results. not pay a twit that will harm their dog, with their out dated, horrid, cruel methods and equipment.

Then you dont have the imagination
Rewards aint just treats - Mia wants to zoomie with Ben - she has to sit nicely before I reward her with a zoomie
Chuck the ball - only if you lie down
Go for a walk, OK if you sit for me

It dosent take years, its not rocket science, you make the act of doing the trick so rewarding that it is better than the distractions - dosent matter what the reward is, if taught properly working with you is the reward

But they have tried that without success.

Adam

yes, the 'we've tried everything' people. Sorry but that just means 'we tried things but didn't have the patience to see it through'. What happens if the E Collar training didn't work, or caused a new issue? What then? All out of ideas? Here's one - don't get a dog if you don't have the patience or time to train it.

Really?? I often hear people say they have tried everything - in reality it means they have confused the poor dog by trying different things every single walk, never consistant, and they just dont have the experience in training to understand what they really need to do

Or even more often 'tried everything' means they have just done what they have done with every other dog, not adapting their training based on the dogs drives

So when you asses someones dogs do you just believe them when they say they have tried everything and bring out the E collar?? or do you take the time to show them new tricks

IF (and I dont think it ever is) an E collar is needed it should be after YOU have tried the other methods and seen that for some reason they are really not working
A person comes to you because you are supposed to have the greater skill - not the remote control button