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Bernie
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Location: United Kingdom
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13-06-2013, 09:32 AM
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post

Spaying doesn't stop pyrometer, a bitch can still get the infection but it I rare, a lot more common in a bitch that hasn't been spayed and it is life threatening, many die.
I think you will find that spaying does stop pyo. Pyometra is an infection in the uterus (as I'm sure we all know), during spaying they remove the uterus, therefore eliminating the chance of Pyo.
It is extremely rare for a bitch to get pyo in the uterine stump, so rare it isn't even worth thinking about

As for my thoughts on neutering, I will always have bitches done after they have reached sexual maturity. To me it isn't fair to let a bitch have season after season without any plan to breed.

As for dogs, I will only neuter if their is a problem. Be that medical or because the dogs sex drive is too high so in turn causes a lot of stress for the dog.
My boy is still entire but he will be getting done soon because the smell of bitches is just too much for him and as we have a few come into season which is driving him batty especially as some walk past the front of my house

So yeah, basically so long as the dog has reach sexual maturity I will always spay bitches, and will most likely neuter boys too if needed
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Mattie
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13-06-2013, 10:07 AM
Unfortunately all the uterus is not always removed when a bitch is spayed, it should be but on occasions some can be left behind. It doesn't matter how rare something it we should know about it, only when we have all the information we can find that we can make an informed decision for our dogs.

Apart from that we agree

Life would be very boring if we agreed on everything.
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Bernie
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13-06-2013, 10:13 AM
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post

Life would be very boring if we agreed on everything.
Absofraginglutely
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mjfromga
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13-06-2013, 10:50 AM
Originally Posted by Anniebee View Post
Cockerels are not dogs so not sure that's a valid comparison at all.

All hormones are needed for growth and maturation, so removing those hormones has to have a negative effect.

My experience with meeting dogs that have been neutered at under six months is that my entire male wants to hump them all the time, they seem to give off some kind of aroma that makes that particularly attractive to entire dogs, not just mine.

I meet one owner who berates herself all the time for letting her vet neuter her dog at 5 months old because walking him is a nightmare for her as he's constantly being humped.
Not trying to sound rude, but I'd think your entire male wants to hump them because he is entire. Entire males hump more than neutered males and they also have a tendency to try and be dominant over other dogs.

This is often done in the form humping, especially on neutered males who are not likely to put up an ugly fight over such dominant behavior.

I could be wrong, however... but I had an entire male who did this as well. He'd always try and hump un-neutered males, but rarely neutered males... and the neutered males always let him while the entire males turned their heads in anger.
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Rosebud77
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13-06-2013, 10:57 AM
Originally Posted by Anniebee View Post
Cockerels are not dogs so not sure that's a valid comparison at all.

All hormones are needed for growth and maturation, so removing those hormones has to have a negative effect.

My experience with meeting dogs that have been neutered at under six months is that my entire male wants to hump them all the time, they seem to give off some kind of aroma that makes that particularly attractive to entire dogs, not just mine.

I meet one owner who berates herself all the time for letting her vet neuter her dog at 5 months old because walking him is a nightmare for her as he's constantly being humped.
The opposite to your thesis has been proved many times by many here. Testosterone is testosterone; not needed for maturation or growth except re sexuality. That is its purpose and that is what we change when we neuter even later in life. Growth hormones are a different matter altogether and we are not talking re removing growth hormone glands
Seems there are many badly controlled dogs in your area...

On this we must agree to disagree; my experience is of family work over decades and I trust that. Never any problems,
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Anniebee
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13-06-2013, 11:09 AM
Originally Posted by mjfromga View Post
Not trying to sound rude, but I'd think your entire male wants to hump them because he is entire. Entire males hump more than neutered males and they also have a tendency to try and be dominant over other dogs.

This is often done in the form humping, especially on neutered males who are not likely to put up an ugly fight over such dominant behavior.

I could be wrong, however... but I had an entire male who did this as well. He'd always try and hump un-neutered males, but rarely neutered males... and the neutered males always let him while the entire males turned their heads in anger.
I don't find it rude at all, so no worries on that score.

It's not just humping with early neutered males ( and not just my dog with this particular one ), he goes into overdrive sniffing him and salivating. He's not interested in doing it with dogs that are neutered but have been neutered later on in life ( if that makes sense ). He's not all that bothered about humping anything else. He's never leg humped or done it to any cushions,blankets or toys either. I'm not entirely sure that I'm swayed by the dominance theory either?

We have one Viz whose owner cannot bring on Viz whizzes anymore as her neutered male ( again, a very early neuter ) is constantly harassed by entire males In his case he's also very leggy and overly tall for a Viz, again , put down to early neutering.
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Anniebee
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13-06-2013, 11:21 AM
Originally Posted by Rosebud77 View Post
The opposite to your thesis has been proved many times by many here. Testosterone is testosterone; not needed for maturation or growth except re sexuality. That is its purpose and that is what we change when we neuter even later in life. Growth hormones are a different matter altogether and we are not talking re removing growth hormone glands
Seems there are many badly controlled dogs in your area...

On this we must agree to disagree; my experience is of family work over decades and I trust that. Never any problems,
Sorry, but what in my post gave you any indication that there are "many badly controlled dogs in my area"? What I was saying is that she herself as an owner struggles because her dog is a magnet to entire dogs.

I think to say that the theory has been disproved " many times by many here" is a wee bit on the exaggerated side as as far as I can tell there are more opponents to pre-pubescent neutering than those in favour of.

For the record, I'm not anti neutering full stop, but I don't see a case for neutering just for the sake of it either.
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Jackie
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13-06-2013, 11:27 AM
Originally Posted by Rosebud77 View Post
Family who are top breeders in Canada advocate juvenile neutering in males to prevent hormone memory; ie before the testosterone is produced. Prevents male aggression and is easier on the dog. It is the norm over there.

Once bought in a new cockerel as the old one was waning He was a pet, followed me everywhere , on my lap to be petted, until one day in spring his testosterone came in. He became immediately an aggressive ankle pecker. Almost killed the old cockerel and even a bucket of water did nothing.... I always think of them when this subject comes up...Never underestimate the power of hormones and in dogs they linger on for months and their effect on nature and behaviour can be permanent, Early neutering works. Ditto juvenile spaying for bitches for many reasons well discussed here. It is also a less traumatic procedure done early.
Thankfully we don't live in Canada....neutering is not guaranteed to reduce aggression in males or females .

Removing testosterone from juveniles holds more negatives than positives, what's wrong with allowing your dog to mature .
There seems to be a school of thought held by some that allowing a male dog to hold on to his bits, will turn him into a raving aggressive sex maniac

Originally Posted by mjfromga View Post
Not trying to sound rude, but I'd think your entire male wants to hump them because he is entire. Entire males hump more than neutered males and they also have a tendency to try and be dominant over other dogs.

This is often done in the form humping, especially on neutered males who are not likely to put up an ugly fight over such dominant behavior.

I could be wrong, however... but I had an entire male who did this as well. He'd always try and hump un-neutered males, but rarely neutered males... and the neutered males always let him while the entire males turned their heads in anger.
I agree, you could be wrong...

There is no evidence that entire males hump more that any other dog, nor is humping a sign of dominance.
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mjfromga
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13-06-2013, 11:34 AM
Originally Posted by Anniebee View Post
I don't find it rude at all, so no worries on that score.

It's not just humping with early neutered males ( and not just my dog with this particular one ), he goes into overdrive sniffing him and salivating. He's not interested in doing it with dogs that are neutered but have been neutered later on in life ( if that makes sense ). He's not all that bothered about humping anything else. He's never leg humped or done it to any cushions,blankets or toys either. I'm not entirely sure that I'm swayed by the dominance theory either?

We have one Viz whose owner cannot bring on Viz whizzes anymore as her neutered male ( again, a very early neuter ) is constantly harassed by entire males In his case he's also very leggy and overly tall for a Viz, again , put down to early neutering.
I HAVE heard that early neutering causes extra legginess, however there aren't really any health risks associated with it as it's usually a proportionate legginess, not just their back legs get longer etc.

I hope my puppy (neutered BEFORE 3 months) doesn't get bothered by these males, lest I have to equip myself with doggy mace.
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mjfromga
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13-06-2013, 11:36 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
Thankfully we don't live in Canada....neutering is not guaranteed to reduce aggression in males or females .

Removing testosterone from juveniles holds more negatives than positives, what's wrong with allowing your dog to mature .
There seems to be a school of thought held by some that allowing a male dog to hold on to his bits, will turn him into a raving aggressive sex maniac



I agree, you could be wrong...

There is no evidence that entire males hump more that any other dog, nor is humping a sign of dominance.
Yes, well when a male has another male clenched by the back of the hackles, growling and snarling while humping, I'd think it was dominance... but again, I could be wrong.
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