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Laurabehjet
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22-06-2013, 10:29 AM
Originally Posted by Tangutica View Post
I still think people should know where their food comes from and how it gets to their plate.

Not many people would be prepared to kill animals to eat them but are happy to let others do it for them as long as they don't have to know 'the details'.

Of course anyone who felt strongly enough about it would just not eat any animal products. I have a son who won't and know many others like him.

The display on the butcher counter in countries like this one might offend the senses of people who don't like to be reminded what their dinner looked like when it was still running around. But it's fact that most of the animals eaten here do have a better life than in other more 'civilised' (if you like!) countries. They roam free. We still have lots of shepherds here who work as they did for centuries past, just tending their flocks and walking around with them all day to graze them.

They get most of their complaints from ex pat Brits who complain about goats being walked through their little englander outposts and eating stuff from their gardens! But the goats were here for a very long time before they were.
Surely anyone with a half a brain cell knows if they are eating a chicken fillet once there was an egg, that hatched into a chicken, that was then killed and eaten..?

You don't need to see things to necessarily understand them.

When you hear of murders of tv, you understand what happened without actually seeing the person getting strangled, the knife going in etc, if someone is raped, you understand what happened without seeing the attack, a paedophile abusing a child, youunderstand what happened without actually seeing the abuse.

All extreme examples I know, but my point is that you can understand something perfectly adequately without actually witnessing it so I don't see why people should have to see dead bodies, footage of slaughter etc to understand where it came from.

I think if everyone knew the full gory details you'd end up with a situation where people were thoroughly desensitized and had no reaction to suffering at all and I don't think that's wise.
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Jackie
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22-06-2013, 10:31 AM
Originally Posted by Laurabehjet View Post
Surely anyone with a half a brain cell knows if they are eating a chicken fillet once there was an egg, that hatched into a chicken, that was then killed and eaten..?

You don't need to see things to necessarily understand them.

When you hear of murders of tv, you understand what happened without actually seeing the person getting strangled, the knife going in etc, if someone is raped, you understand what happened without seeing the attack, a paedophile abusing a child, youunderstand what happened without actually seeing the abuse.

All extreme examples I know, but my point is that you can understand something perfectly adequately without actually witnessing it so I don't see why people should have to see dead bodies, footage of slaughter etc to understand where it came from.

I think if everyone knew the full gory details you'd end up with a situation where people were thoroughly desensitized and had no reaction to suffering at all and I don't think that's wise.
So you are suggesting we live in a world of censorship
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Tang
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22-06-2013, 10:32 AM
Originally Posted by Laurabehjet View Post
Surely anyone with a half a brain cell knows if they are eating a chicken fillet once there was an egg, that hatched into a chicken, that was then killed and eaten..?

You don't need to see things to necessarily understand them.

When you hear of murders of tv, you understand what happened without actually seeing the person getting strangled, the knife going in etc, if someone is raped, you understand what happened without seeing the attack, a paedophile abusing a child, youunderstand what happened without actually seeing the abuse.

All extreme examples I know, but my point is that you can understand something perfectly adequately without actually witnessing it so I don't see why people should have to see dead bodies, footage of slaughter etc to understand where it came from.

I think if everyone knew the full gory details you'd end up with a situation where people were thoroughly desensitized and had no reaction to suffering at all and I don't think that's wise.
We posted at the same time. I've already explained why I think it's important for people to know what DOES happen to the food before it hits their plate or is presented in an aesthetically pleasing package on a supermarket shelf.

And it is just because some WERE so outraged and not desensitized that we've made great strides forward in how they are treated, raised, transported, slaughtered etc.

And you mention TV. Many popular series will depict gory murders on a weekly basis without eliciting outrage from the public. Show a lion bringing down another animal and they are offended?
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Laurabehjet
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22-06-2013, 10:37 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
So you are suggesting we live in a world of censorship
Depends on your definition really but yes in a way.

I don't want to live in a world where every time I walk outside, turn on my tv etc i am forced to see every imaginable act of cruelty from shooting pigeons to raping babies because some people think if I don't I somehow live in la la land.

I am fully aware of what happens in livestock rearing and killing, I'm also fully aware of awful practices abroad like female circumcision and killing and torturing babies because they are the wrong sex and also aware of how you stab someone, the act of strangling, domestic violence etc.

But I don't need to SEE any of those things to understand them and I don't WANT to see them and people shouldn't have an issue with that,
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Jackie
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22-06-2013, 10:58 AM
Originally Posted by Laurabehjet View Post
Depends on your definition really but yes in a way.

I don't want to live in a world where every time I walk outside, turn on my tv etc i am forced to see every imaginable act of cruelty from shooting pigeons to raping babies because some people think if I don't I somehow live in la la land.

I am fully aware of what happens in livestock rearing and killing, I'm also fully aware of awful practices abroad like female circumcision and killing and torturing babies because they are the wrong sex and also aware of how you stab someone, the act of strangling, domestic violence etc.

But I don't need to SEE any of those things to understand them and I don't WANT to see them and people shouldn't have an issue with that,
Then maybe somewhere like North Korea may be a good place to live, censorship at its best, where everyone is shielded from the outside world and fed propaganda of a wonderful life ...

Censorship is a dangerous way to go, life is not nice, and the more we see its not nice the more we can do about it, if you stopped reports on death mutilation and every other nasty in the world, we would all be blissfully unaware of such acts and live in a utopia of ignorance to the injustices of the outside world.......... you really don`t want to life a life like that surely ???

Of cause there is always another way, don`t read newspapers or watch TV , use the off switch when things are shown you feel offends you.
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Malka
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22-06-2013, 11:20 AM
Originally Posted by Laurabehjet View Post
...[snip]...
I think, it's safe to say, I could not live in the Middle East. Yuck!
You do not have to live in the Middle East - I have done so for 28 years because I chose to. It might be "Yuck" to you but it is Home to me.

I do not buy meat and poultry from supermarkets, I buy it from the old shuk [market] - which, to be honest, stinks and would definitely offend you. But I see what I am buying and from where it comes - it is not neatly cut and packaged and labelled. I get the piece/cut/amount that I ask for and I know exactly how fresh it is when I buy it.

And before you ask, yes I have been to slaughter houses so I know exactly how the animals and poultry end up hanging in the butchers' shops and stalls.
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Tang
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22-06-2013, 12:06 PM
Originally Posted by Laurabehjet View Post
Depends on your definition really but yes in a way.

I don't want to live in a world where every time I walk outside, turn on my tv etc i am forced to see every imaginable act of cruelty from shooting pigeons to raping babies because some people think if I don't I somehow live in la la land.

I am fully aware of what happens in livestock rearing and killing, I'm also fully aware of awful practices abroad like female circumcision and killing and torturing babies because they are the wrong sex and also aware of how you stab someone, the act of strangling, domestic violence etc.

But I don't need to SEE any of those things to understand them and I don't WANT to see them and people shouldn't have an issue with that,
I take issue with it because all the other stuff you mention - lurid horrors such as raping and torturing babies, circumcising females, you don't benefit from and are not the end consumer of the deed.

But when it comes to the slaughter and preparation of animals that end up on your plate - you ARE involved! Without you and all the others that buy and eat it it would not go on.

You want to be able to benefit from it while turning a blind eye to how it got to you. All I am saying is people should be made more aware (as they were in times gone by) of what is involved in what they buy and eat.

Put it this way - I don't enjoy watching gratuitiously violent videos of animal cruelty. I do know it goes on and I do my bit to protest and help financially and in a hands on way whenever possible.

Rearing and slaughtering domestic animals is different. I am INVOLVED in it if I eat the meat! Or if I enjoy the strawberries picked by slave labour living under horrendous conditions - virtually enslaved. I can do something about it - I can protest and I can choose NOT to buy certain things.

I'd be in no position to be able to make a choice if the truth and the facts were kept from me in case they offended my sensibilities. That to my is sheer hypocrisy and is what allows it to continue without improvement.
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Lacey10
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22-06-2013, 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by Tangutica View Post
I take issue with it because all the other stuff you mention - lurid horrors such as raping and torturing babies, circumcising females, you don't benefit from and are not the end consumer of the deed.

But when it comes to the slaughter and preparation of animals that end up on your plate - you ARE involved! Without you and all the others that buy and eat it it would not go on.

You want to be able to benefit from it while turning a blind eye to how it got to you. All I am saying is people should be made more aware (as they were in times gone by) of what is involved in what they buy and eat.

Put it this way - I don't enjoy watching gratuitiously violent videos of animal cruelty. I do know it goes on and I do my bit to protest and help financially and in a hands on way whenever possible.

Rearing and slaughtering domestic animals is different. I am INVOLVED in it if I eat the meat! Or if I enjoy the strawberries picked by slave labour living under horrendous conditions - virtually enslaved. I can do something about it - I can protest and I can choose NOT to buy certain things.

I'd be in no position to be able to make a choice if the truth and the facts were kept from me in case they offended my sensibilities. That to my is sheer hypocrisy and is what allows it to continue without improvement.
Well said
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Rosebud77
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22-06-2013, 12:23 PM
Forgive my skimming posts; I think if you read my posts on the thread re the dog farmer programme yesterday

I am old now; maybe that brings a different perspective. But I well remember life before TV, before mass communications, which rely on horror and violence, and it was a saner and certainly not less caring world,

When we finally got TV I was sent away when the programmes featured the death camps.

And there is no way I would watch TV now; I ditched it years ago and not because I do not care. Far from it. But to avoid the despair and angst in the OP and other posts.

Because for most of these issues there is little or nothing we can do. So I do all I can re the things I CAN do something about

Sorry if this comes across as being attached to religion! BUT there is a passage in Nehemiah that teaches that we are only responsible for the sins we commit and not for what others do. To let the evils of others lead you to angst is letting them win. Surely you can see that? Think about it.

And often there is little we can d to stop the abuse we see..

Just been yelling across the back field here! I reported a collie that was being left tied up outside as is the way here in all weathers and crying and screaming all night. Made a good job of it it; dog warden, local council etc as I had written to the people to no effect. Better so if it starts I shout to it and it stops!

Reminded too last night of what our ***** theologians tern scrupulosity ie overthinking and over in a way over caring . That way we lose strength and get dragged down so continuing and intensifying the abuse and evil.

ONLY govt action will stop abuse. It has happened over here with fur farming. Quiet reasoned campaigning won where the idiotic actions of lib demos has seen us infested with mink that are damaging the whole eco system

I have seen over and over recently as my strength gets less that the pen is mightier than the sword.

Tangetc; thank you for taking on board what I wrote last night. Once ion another board a person from aussie land googled the whole of Ireland and found cheap free range eggs to try to prove me evil!!!

Malka for me has the most balanced way.. but more and more I seek to avoid death for what I eat and that too is my freedom and my choice. As eating meat is hers of course. To be respected always.

So OP; no you never stop feeling. BUT you can and should avoid getting bogged down in suffering that you can do nothing about, as that emasculates and disempowers. You have to keep a sense of proportion and safeguard your health and sanity

Reminded too of a relative abroad who is well known for putting actions to words. Seeing a dog shut in a car in hot sun she entered the adjoining café.. the place emptied ad folk knew what she would do and sure enough when no one claimed the dog she called the cops and smashed the windows before they got there. You go girl!
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Gemini54
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22-06-2013, 05:19 PM
Hi thank you for all your comments. Regarding the circus the big families Chipperfield and smart,saw the writing on the wall a long time before the law became a reality,and went into the up and coming safari parks i.e. Longleat and Woburn,even one of the lesser known families ran Chessington Circus.Although in Europe horses are used,the public have spoken regarding zoos etc,now it has to be the TV Gemini54
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