I've got a dobe ( docked ) and a JRT undocked ..the dobe is no more a status symbol than the JRT -the only quibble I have with it is when you see badly docked dogs ..
But basically I'm pro-choice

Don't know your family and you have lost me, my post was not to you as I had not read a post by you. Please calm down, I am not in the habit of making personal statements about anybody.

Just finished reading your post and I think you have made a mistake I have never mentioned status symbols and my dogs are not docked, guess you must be thinking of someone else.

Excellent point Willow! This is indeed what I mean by looking at all the facts and sides of the argument. My only criticism to this argument is we keep dogs as domesticated pets however we eat (well I don't i'm veggie) lambs, calves etc

I agree with you though!

I believe Luke this is the exception to the rule not the norm? I know many pet dogs who NEVER find themselves in this position.

maybe, its more of a location of home thing then Dibley?

You could well have a point Luke after all dogs that live in rural areas may well be prone to getting themselves in to certain types of situations.

MORGAN THE DOBE WAS ALREADY DOCKED WHEN I GOT HIM AND IT WAS THE FIRST DOCKED BREED THAT I HAVE OWNED. I LIKE THE LOOK OF DOBES WITH A DOCKED TAIL BUT STILL RATHER THEY BANNED IT. HIS TAIL IS 1-2 JOINTS TO LONG TOO BUT THE JUDGES DON'T SEAM TO BOTHER ABOUT IT. I WOULD LIKE TO BREED A LITTER ONE DAY BUT CAN'T BEAR THE THOUGHT OF DOCKING I AM HOPING THE LAW WILL BE PASSED BEFOREHAND. I KNOW MORGAN REMEMBERS HIS TAIL BEING DOCKED THAT IS WHY HE HATES THE END BEING TOUCHED.HE IS ALSO THE ONLY PUP I EVER HAD THAT IS DIFFICULT TO DO ANYTHING WITH LIKE EARS, NAILS ETC AND WAS BAD AT THE VETS FROM DAY ONE. HE HAS AN EXCELLENT MEMORY. I HAVE SINCE GOT HIM A LITTLE BETTER. THE WEIMARANER BREEDER WAS NOT INTO SHOWING SO LEFT HERS UNDOCKED THEY LOOK QUITE NICE WITH A TAIL HOWEVER I CAN UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM WHEN THEY ARE WORKED AS SHE OFTEN RUNS OUT OF THE FOREST SQUEELING HAVING CAUGHT HER TAIL ON SOME BRAMBLE. HAVING HAD DOGS WITH NATURAL BUT CURLED TAILS FOR YEARS I HAD FORGOTTEN HOW HARD THEIR TAILS CAN HIT YOU OR HOW LOUD IT SOUNDS WHEN THEY ARE HITTING IT ON THE WALL LATE AT NIGHT! wHEN I LOOK AT MORGANS LITTLE STUMP WAGGING I FEEL SO SORRY FOR HIM AND EVEN IF I STOPPED SHOWING HIM AM RELUCTANT TO MUTILATE HIM EVEN FURTHER BY HAVING HIM CASTERATED A PRACTISE I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED IN.

But you don't have to dock if you don't want to ..there are dobe breeders around who don't dock , you say Morgan does'nt like having his tail touched, I'm sorry but I can't believe that is down to his 'remembering' (maybe its painfull ,i'd have it looked at by a vet ) my dobe loves having his stump scratched ( as have all dobes I've met ) but he has been funny in the past about his claws but we've got over that ,and he revells in his ears being cleaned ...but I don't think either ears or claws has any bearing on his being docked

Docking is something that has been on my mind for many years with owning traditionally docked breeds (until recently).

To be honest I always thought it was terrible to dock a dogs tail and I still do in certain circumstances.

However I've finally made my decision on docking. I personally don't think it harms the pup at all, especially since seeing this vid. Now I did look at this with a completely open mind, which I know some of you won't be able to do considering some of the posts I've already seen.
http://www.cdb.org/video.htm
But please don't just assume you're right look at the facts first and decide for yourself like I did. And whatever decision you make I will respect and hope that you do the same for me.

Personally if I was to own ESSs purely for show purposes I probably wouldn't dock. Not because I think it is cruel but because I think it would be unecessary, I might be wrong but that's my opinion.
However as I plan to primarily work my dogs (and possibly show) I would have my dogs docked. The reason being has already been stated by Het, the damage that can be afflicted on an undocked ESSs tail is unbelievable. Anyone whos seen an ESS in full hunting mode will understand how this happens! Whirlwind is not the word!

It's because of the above reasons that I am Pro choice where by I don't think it should be banned as every dog and dog owners situation is going to be different. I love dogs with full tails like most other people probably do on here but sometimes it just isn't practical.

Has anyone ever considered that these dogs have been docked for decades for a reason. Many years ago when the breeds were first being developed I think it's highly likely that at some point the founders or breeders of the breed realised it was better for the dog to have it's tail docked than amputated in later life?

This post is of course looked at from a Gundog owners point of view as this is what I know best, so please don't jump down my throat about other breeds being docked, as having never owned anything other than Gundog breeds I can't personally comment.

And finally here's the breed standard on ESS tail docking, although it is tradition you have a choice whether to dock or not.

TAIL:
Set low, never carried above level of back. Well feathered with lively action. Customarily docked.
Docked: Set low, never carried above level of back. Well feathered with lively action.
Undocked: Set low, never carried above level of back. Well feathered with lively action. In balance with the rest of the dog.

MORGANS STUMP IS WELL HEALED THERE IS DEFINATELY NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. I KNOW DOCKING IS A CHOICE AND IF THE BREEDER OF MANY CHAMPIONS DECIDED NOT TO DOCK AND STILL SHOWED IT WOULD PROBABLY BE A TURNING POINT BUT NOT SOMEONE WHO JUST SHOWS THEIR PET. iF I BRED A LITTER AND DIDN'T DOCK THEM I COULDN'T EXPECT ANY OF THEM TO BE SHOWN. MY WEIMARANER HAS GOOD BREEDING AND I HAVE THOUGHT OF SHOWING HER BUT IT WILL HOLD HER BACK MORE THAN IF SHE HAD A TAIL OF INCORRECT LENGTH LIKE MORGAN. i STILL THINK DESPITE LIKING THE LOOK OF A DOCKED DOBE WHAT RIGHT DO WE HAVE TO CHOP OFF A DOGS TAIL, OR EVEN DEW CLAWS EVEN IF IT IS BETTER FOR THEM OR US IN THE LONG RUN. oR IS CROPPING OF THE EARS PAINLESS AND HARMLESS TOO. i AGREE THAT ALL BREEDS WITH BAD HEREDITARY PROBLEMS SHOULD NOT BE BRED SHAR-PEIS ARE LOVELY DOGS BUT ARE OFTEN GRUMPY NATURED BECAUSE OF THE PAIN THEY HAVE TO ENDURE WHY BREED DOGS THAT OFTEN ONLY LIVE TO FIVE YEARS OLD AND IN PAIN TOO[THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS BUT MOST DONT LIVE BEYOND THAT AGE] i THINK THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK BEYOND WHAT WE LIKE THE LOOK OF AND THINK OF WHATS BEST FOR THE DOG. APPARENTLY PUPPIES THAT ARE 3 DAYS OLD HAVE NO FEELING. WHO DECIDED THIS SOMEONE WHO HAD NEVER HAD A LITTER OBVIOUSLY. I HAVE LITTERS OF GREAT DANE PUPS AND THEY WILL SQUEEL LIKE HELL WHEN THEIR DAM TREADS ON THEM SO HOW COME THEY FEEL SOMETHING THEN. i AM NOT SAYING I WOULDN'T HAVE ANOTHER DOCKED DOG BUT WHAT I AM SAYING IS I COULD NOT TAKE A DOG TO A VET TO DELIBERATLY MUTILATE A PUPPY. AS FOR THE OTHER WAY OF PUTTING AN ELASTIC BAND ROUND ITS TAIL ITS NOT ONLY ILLEGAL BUT ANYTHING WITH A BLOOD SUPPLY IS GOING TO FEEL VERY UNCOMFORTABLE. EVER HAD A RING ON YOUR FINGER THATS TOO TIGHT? WE ARE SUPPOSED TO LOVE DOGS DON'T DO TO A DOG WHAT YOU WOULDN;T TO YOUR CHILD.