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Hewey
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16-04-2007, 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by wufflehoond View Post
This leads to another question though. If you saw someone being attacked in the street, what would you do?
Call the authorities, then stand back and watch the attack continue, or jump in and try to stop it?
I know what I would do and what I have had to do in the past. I would contact the authorities, but I would also do everything in my power to stop the attack in the meantime by whatever means necessary.
May be right, may be wrong but I could not stand back and wait around for the authorities while someone was being brutally attacked.
I would do the same as you, call the police and I hope I would do what ever I could to help the situation. Some situations will be difused when people are made aware the police are on the way but I don't have any problem with people using appropriate physical force as a last resort to prevent injury when it is actually happening. It is the inappropriate use leading to an escalation or as a punitive rather than preventative measure I take issue with.
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wufflehoond
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16-04-2007, 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by Hewey View Post
I would do the same as you, call the police and I hope I would do what ever I could to help the situation. Some situations will be difused when people are made aware the police are on the way but I don't have any problem with people using appropriate physical force as a last resort to prevent injury when it is actually happening. It is the inappropriate use leading to an escalation or as a punitive rather than preventative measure I take issue with.
So, you would resort to violence if you had no other option. What exactly do you consider 'appropriate physical force'. What you consider appropriate may not be what other people do. Also, everyone's idea of 'last resort' will be different.
Perhaps, someone's 'last resort' comes after their family are threatened and the authorities have not been of assistance...Food for thought.
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Niknak
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16-04-2007, 01:45 PM
Firstly I think that it is sad that people have to live in such fear of their lives in any situation at all in a country such as ours - but people do.

Secondly I think that it is bad that there is little support from the police - my parents only last weekend had shots fired from a weapon into their shed and although , after two days, the police came out to see them there was little that they could do as there was no evidence (even though they knew where they came from by the likely trajectory).

Originally Posted by Azz View Post
I don't think there is any room for violence in our society.

Violence on a big or small scale, whether that be unjust wars or gangs of people on the street level, pre-emptive strikes or organised bashings.

Self defence is not the same - if you are attacked you are within your right to defend yourself. If someone is being attacked then by all means make your own decision whether you want to try and break it up. But trying to break something up is different to getting a gun or baseball bat and taking one of them out - you never know what's behind the incidence to begin with and it would be foolish to 'take sides' with very little background knowledge.

Jmo
I agree with Azz but therre is something to add to that in that you are within your right to defend yourself "with reasonable force" and that would be at the discretion of the police and judge if it ever got that far.

There was once two guys who seemed to be fighting in my town centre in the middle of the day - one guy was getting the better of the other - I was going to support the under dog however I did ask what was going on - the underdog was a criminal and the other person was an undercover police officer - I called the police for support and then assisted the officer in restraining the criminal - a good job I thought before acting otherwise I could have been in serious trouble!
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jackiew
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16-04-2007, 01:50 PM
i hate violence myself but sometimes feel that you feel you have no other choice

my daughter was in a nasty relationship
she left him before xmas and this guy has stalked her, tried to strangle her , run her off the road several times, made death threats to her mobile and still the police say there is nothing they can do

last week my daughter took a overdose and ended up in hospital as she thought this would be the only way free of him!!!

if i get my hands on him he will be one sorry person for doing all this to my daughter
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Niknak
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16-04-2007, 01:55 PM
Shiba - to answer your question from a previous thread - where I was threatened to be killed (twice in broad daylight) and once over the phone was purely by talking - it was by my (now) wife's ex boyfriend (who liked to use his fists on women). Not a man by any means. I'm not saying that you can talk your way out of all situations - I was probably lucky in that I was dealing with someone who thought that because he was bigger meant that he had the advantage but when you have a mental advantage it is probably bigger than any size. Life has a funny way of treating people and not long after he used his mouth on me I saw him with a severe black eye - obviously not as good as he thought that he was. You could say that I was lucky - maybe I was.
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Hewey
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16-04-2007, 02:01 PM
Originally Posted by wufflehoond View Post
What exactly do you consider 'appropriate physical force'. What you consider appropriate may not be what other people do. Also, everyone's idea of 'last resort' will be different.
Perhaps, someone's 'last resort' comes after their family are threatened and the authorities have not been of assistance...Food for thought.
It is only reasonable to use the minimum required to prevent injury. If restraint techniques are possible and sufficient in a particular situation for instance there is clearly no excuse to give someone a thrashing. Other more severe physical action may be required to stop them injuring someone else but there would still be no excuse to go further than to render them inactive. No one has the right to hand out punishment outside a court.
I am not sure what 'last resort' you are talking about for people that feel the authorities have not assisted them. I can't imagine any other justification other than immediate prevention of injury when a physical response can ever be justified. Can you imagine a world where everyone felt the right to take justice into their own hands?
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shiba
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16-04-2007, 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by jackiew View Post
i hate violence myself but sometimes feel that you feel you have no other choice

my daughter was in a nasty relationship
she left him before xmas and this guy has stalked her, tried to strangle her , run her off the road several times, made death threats to her mobile and still the police say there is nothing they can do

last week my daughter took a overdose and ended up in hospital as she thought this would be the only way free of him!!!

if i get my hands on him he will be one sorry person for doing all this to my daughter
Oh my god, i am so sorry what a terrible thing to have happened to your family. I hope your daughter is well soon.
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jackiew
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16-04-2007, 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by Hewey View Post
It is only reasonable to use the minimum required to prevent injury. If restraint techniques are possible and sufficient in a particular situation for instance there is clearly no excuse to give someone a thrashing. Other more severe physical action may be required to stop them injuring someone else but there would still be no excuse to go further than to render them inactive. No one has the right to hand out punishment outside a court.
I am not sure what 'last resort' you are talking about for people that feel the authorities have not assisted them. I can't imagine any other justification other than immediate prevention of injury when a physical response can ever be justified. Can you imagine a world where everyone felt the right to take justice into their own hands?
but what happens when the police or no one else will help as in my daughters case?

do i just let him kill her or her kill herself as he is making her life a living hell

she moved away and he followed her, she can never be free of this guy
but if he was dealt the same treatment maybe he would listen and stop doing what he is doing
cos in my book people who do this type of thing are bullys and will not stop unless someone else bullys them

i,m not a nasty person and doing nurse training atm so really hate to see people hurt
but how do you deal with a person like this when we can get NO help whatsoever????
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jackiew
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16-04-2007, 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by shiba View Post
Oh my god, i am so sorry what a terrible thing to have happened to your family. I hope your daughter is well soon.
Thank you Shiba
i hae been down there for a couple of days to see her and she is on the road to recovery
but this guy really has to be stopped and no one wants to help us
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wufflehoond
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16-04-2007, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by jackiew View Post
i hate violence myself but sometimes feel that you feel you have no other choice

my daughter was in a nasty relationship
she left him before xmas and this guy has stalked her, tried to strangle her , run her off the road several times, made death threats to her mobile and still the police say there is nothing they can do

last week my daughter took a overdose and ended up in hospital as she thought this would be the only way free of him!!!

if i get my hands on him he will be one sorry person for doing all this to my daughter
Oh Jackie, I had no idea. So sorry you and your family are going through this. I certainly hope you all get the support you need and soon xx
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