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dogster
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28-02-2018, 07:14 AM
I am against breeding dogs Breeding dogs turn out to be unhealthy if there is not enough genes in the gene pool to match with. There are many mixed breed dogs in the pounds that are just as lovable to be with.
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Bulldogs4Life
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11-03-2018, 04:46 AM
Originally Posted by dogster View Post
I am against breeding dogs Breeding dogs turn out to be unhealthy if there is not enough genes in the gene pool to match with. There are many mixed breed dogs in the pounds that are just as lovable to be with.
Thanks for replying. I'm not certain I follow all that you are saying.

Can you explain more? You're against all breeding?...,then eventually dogs would be gone. You're against breeding unhealthy dogs,?...I wish more people were, it would be better for the dogs.


A breeding produces unhealthy dog(s) if both parents carry the same recessive disease or are affected, if at least one parent has a dominant disease, if they carry genes for polygenic diseases which also can be influenced by the environment and are variable, if from generations of inbreeding fitness can suffer and increase chance of certain types of health issues, non genetic congenital defect these can be caused by different environmental factors depending on the defect or a novel mutation occurs.

Yes there are many mixed breeds in the pound, due to the designer dog breeding craze, especially the large number pumped out by puppy mills and you have people that have oops litters are a stray male gets to a female. There are also many pure bred dogs in pounds, they are loveable too. This isn't the mixed breed vs pure breed debate it's about dog breeding (debate or discussion, doesn't have to be a debate). I don't feel that one is superior to the other or more deserving of a home or more loveable to be with.

Which some people are looking for more than simply loveable.
Such as military using Malinois bred and trained for the job. Those with predation issues and livestock would need livestock guardian.
Some others don't need, but rather want as they enjoy certain activities like hunting, which different breeds are crosses for specific types of hunting are used or a dog sport like fly ball as long as the dog enjoys it and has certain traits it can work out a team could have pound doh whether mix or pure, a specific pure bred from a breeder or a cross breed from a breeder ect there are different types of competition with different requirements so you might see some diverse teams.
Dog owners really vary with what they want by having a dog and their lifestyle so certain breeds or individual dogs will be better than others for their situation.
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Besoeker
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11-03-2018, 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by brenda1 View Post
I'm sorry just had to jump in and say all the shepherds I have had in my life have been perfect dogs. So have my collies. Don't believe in breeding for breedings sake but to further good healthy dogs. Not a lover of cross breeding.
I'm inclined to agree with that. Not a fan of "designer" dogs. In my opinion, dogs ought to be companions rather than a fashion statement.
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Trouble
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11-03-2018, 05:10 PM
Personally the only reason I would not be a fan of designer dogs is the breeding practices used to "make" a designer dog. Usually they come from puppy farms or at best from people who may have the best intentions but are ill informed. They may love their dog dearly, they may be wonderful companions and yet the owners are completely ignorant of health testing. Just because your dog is cute and dearly loved doesn't mean they will make "good breeding stock" far from it in many cases. You just have to see some of the odd looking dogs that are produced when little thought is put in to what goes into the mix and many also have health issues too. I have nothing against designer dogs themselves, many of them are very cute and make lovely pets, it's the ethics behind them that bugs me. After all they're really no different to any much loved mixed breed pup apart from the price often asked for but if people are willing to pay it I think the least they deserve is a healthy pup for their money.
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Bulldogs4Life
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12-03-2018, 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
Personally the only reason I would not be a fan of designer dogs is the breeding practices used to "make" a designer dog. Usually they come from puppy farms or at best from people who may have the best intentions but are ill informed. They may love their dog dearly, they may be wonderful companions and yet the owners are completely ignorant of health testing. Just because your dog is cute and dearly loved doesn't mean they will make "good breeding stock" far from it in many cases. You just have to see some of the odd looking dogs that are produced when little thought is put in to what goes into the mix and many also have health issues too. I have nothing against designer dogs themselves, many of them are very cute and make lovely pets, it's the ethics behind them that bugs me. After all they're really no different to any much loved mixed breed pup apart from the price often asked for but if people are willing to pay it I think the least they deserve is a healthy pup for their money.
I very much agree. It isn't the cross breeding exactly. I've seen some great working crosses, but most these designer dogs are mill/farm dogs used to make money or some other irresponsible source.
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Jackie
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15-03-2018, 09:40 AM
I really don`t understand the logic to those who say they don`t like/support breeders/breeding/pedigree , I assume that they do not own dogs or would ever rescue a dog, because by doing so you are contradicting your own belief by supporting someone somewhere that bred that dog you own.

I have no issue with those who prefer to rescue rather than buy from a breeder, but the above logic makes no sense.

I`m one of those people who when buying a dog I research the breed first, health issues particular to the breed and make sure the breeder I go to has health tested all their breeding stock. I don`t understand the logic of `not wanting to know the temperament /size you are going to end up with, surely this is a sure way of said dog ending up in rescue, due to not being prepared for the end result.

I have just spent time on the discover dog stand at crufts (along with multiple other folk on all breeds) to give up our time to help educate anyone who is interested in my or their breed, we give all the pros and cons of a breed , not just hes a lovely fluffy pup, by doing this we can ensure (for the most part) that those wishing to buy said breed is making he right decision for them, and their lifestyle....buying blind is irresponsible on both buyer and breeder.

The belief that crossbred and mutts are healthier than pedigrees is flawed, you only have to watch some of the vet program to see this is not true.

People need to understand that crossing breeds wipes out any inherent issues, it wont, the only way this will happen is if the breeder of a litter of pups has access to pedigree /history/parentage of the sire and dam and makes sure both (and g/parents ) are free from said disease , not breeding carriers to carriers and so on, that will apply to pure bred and crossbred, but unfortunately most people who breed these designer dogs do not know or care about health they just see money. i am not blinded to the fact ALL pedigree breeders are whiter than white either, but it is down to the buyer to research and buy from healthy dogs.instead of regurgitating the usual pedigrees are all interbred and unhealthy, this is simple not true, you can out cross and still get problems if you simply believe that will fix an issue, it can be as departmental to a breed as breeding unhealthy tested dogs.

We blame the breeders , but its people who buy are the biggest problem, if we took the time to research and ASK the right questions of breeders, and walk away if not satisfied , then the over production of dogs would stop.

every other dog you see is a poo of some sort or other, ask groomers how they have to deal with these dogs when they owners bring them in a couple of times a year, with never having a brush put on them, then expect a groomer to make it look nice........... these are the people who did no research on the breeds involved .

Buy what you want, but make sure it is healthy and fits your lifestyle otherwise it is only going to end one way, another dog in an already over crowded rescue centre.
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Moobli
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23-08-2018, 08:01 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
And SO disagree about GSD's ... poor, crippled, roach-backed, fallen haunched cripples - obviously there are exceptions but everyone i have known over the years with GSD's have had huge health issues. I have in mind next door's Ben at the age of 6 was crippled with fallen haunches and could not jump into the back of their Saab. My Ben, aged 14 or 15, can't remember exactly, can still jump into the back of the Discovery with the suspension set up high - after the walk, we do have to lower it for him but he can still jump in with ease.

Poor GSDs
In their defence, the GSD show line breeders do extensively health test their dogs - much more so than the pet type breeders, but they just produce the type of shepherd that isn't for me. If you look at many of the working line breeders, they still produce an unexaggerated dog capable of working and many are now health testing. Sadly, it can be tricky finding a balanced, stable temperament suitable for active pet homes in certain working lines as they are being primarily bred for sport, rather than work.
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Moobli
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23-08-2018, 08:08 AM
Originally Posted by Bulldogs4Life View Post
Here GSDs are extremely diverse in both looks and temperament (I know we touched on this but another good example if it only mattered the owner/training them no GSD would ever wash out of a program where they are raised, tested and trained the same).

We have all different lines American show lines, DDR/Czech imports, East German imports, West German show line imports and imports of both show or working from other countries. Various sizes, various builds and structure, all the coat colors, shorter coat (found in working lines), plush coat of the show lines, recessive long coat, temperament of all sorts friendly, balanced with different drives and instincts, very civil dogs not meant for average pet homes, high energy high drives many can't deal with, lack of drives, nervy less confident, everything in between and combo there of depending on lines and specifics of breeding.
It is exactly the same here in the UK - GSDs are a hugely diverse breed. The only type we don't really see is the American show line, but I believe some English show line kennels have imported a couple of ASL as studs.

I still get stopped regularly when out with my working line male though as they are still not commonly kept as pets but are seen more commonly on the IPO field or as a working police dog.
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Moobli
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23-08-2018, 08:27 AM
Just a few thoughts.

I choose to own pedigree dogs. I want to know the size, likely temperament and drives of my dogs so I can ensure they are the right fit for my lifestyle.

Personally I would like to see less dogs being bred in general and the new regulations regarding licensing breeders (as well as the proposals that it will be unlawful for third parties to sell pups) should hopefully go someway towards helping. I have no issue with a person making a profit from producing pups - so long as the breeding is responsible, with breeding dogs having a good quality of life, health tests done on all breeding dogs, the breeder being selective about where their pups are placed etc.

Prospective owners should be educated on the needs of owning a dog and it should be seen as a privilege and not a right. Sadly it seems today in our throwaway society that people want so they get - despite perhaps not being able to provide for a dog's basic needs. Rescue centres would be less stretched if less dogs were produced and more owners took the time to decide whether a dog (or a particular type of dog) was actually a good fit for them.

I don't believe popular sire syndrome is a good thing and would rather see a range of sires used, rather than bitches being taken to the latest big show/trial winner. I also think older sires should be used on occasion. As well as health testing, it could be beneficial to see sires living into older age without health or behaviour problems before being used at stud.

I don't have a big problem with crossbreeding, so long as as much care is taken as with a well bred pedigree litter ie with researching pedigrees, doing health testing, and ensuring good temperament. Sadly I don't think enough breeders really know their lines inside and out.
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Bulldogs4Life
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22-09-2018, 07:34 PM
Moobli great post you said everything so well
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