Any dog can have the potential to harm a baby. Measures have to be put into place to prevent this. My i
Cocker killed my rabbit should I get rid coz I'm pregnant.

Has she actually shown signs of aggression ect around the baby?
ATD x

Wow, there's been a few posts since my last visit. I'll try to answer some questions apologies if I miss anyone.
My understanding of predatory aggression is that it doesn't manifest itself in the same way as dog-dog dog-person aggression as there is little to no change in temperament or behaviour.

The dog is doing something it's instincts are telling it to like running, sniffing or playing. Therefore, it is hard to spot predatory aggression until it happens.

If you look at one of earlier posts (post 4) I described her slight change in behaviour from when she knew she was being watched to when she thought she was unobserved.

We would never leave a baby alone with a dog, ever, even one as soft as our other dog. But with River even if we are in a room supervising and everything appears fine, it only takes a split second to cause a baby damage, what if her collar snapped? What if the lead unclipped by accident? What if she got out of the crate. You might be there, but you might not be able to stop it.

I know it's harsh and it sounds horrible especially when she's a lovely dog with adults. Yes she could be fine, she could be fine for a year, two years, then the child might trigger the predatory response and i'm not prepared to take that risk.
The trainer said River would be fine for an adults only household and would make a great and loving companion, but she is not to go to homes with children, and I would agree with her.

With regards the NI society (bare with me on this) it was a bit complicated. It appeared when we got River, there were fractures in the NI community and none of the sides seemed to be an 'official' society.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense but I think there was at least two Northern Inuit societies at that time.
Our pedigree certificate says Northern Inuit society on it, and the breeder was registered with one of the societies and mentioned on another.
When River's problem arose we sought help from one of the societies, but there only seemed to be one forum left, the other forum was still active but had less members.
We asked the most popular site for assistance and they were very helpful and offered alot of good advice, but were told that that breeder was not part of their society.
They kindly did consider a foster home for her, but all of their foster homes were families with children so it unfortunately wasn't possible.

I also don't think that the family could live with a dog they don't trust REGARDLESS of what anyone else feels will happen if they feel it might then she needs to be rehomed.

She should find a good home, she sounds and looks a lovely dog.

You ought to also realise that your other dogs world will have changed a lot and you may get fallout from that. You just need to be aware and make sute it feels secure.

rune

You could use this argument with your other dog though - what if the baby did something unusual, a cry at a different pitch, a strange movement which triggered your other dog to behave out of character?
This is something we have to consider with any pet - they are not robots and we should not fall into the trap of expecting their behaviours to be totally predictable. Precautions should be taken regardless of the dog's temperament. You could take extra precautions - have her fitted for a comfy harness and use a link to join collar and harness - the chances of both failing/slipping is unlikely. Check the houseline regularly for frays that might rip further. Put a clip or a bit of rope on the crate door as a backup (though lots of crates have two bolts on the doors for security). If you wanted to work it out then there are ways to do it.

However, if you really do want to rehome her than that's your choice and it's going to be much better to rehome her through somewhere like Dogsey, given the lack of support from the breeder/breed society especially.
I think you need to have a serious think about whether you are prepared to work with River and do the training and make the physical changes (e.g. perhaps you could kit the garage out to be a bit more homely so the dogs could spend a little longer out there? Put a TV and chair out there so one of you can sit in there for a while to keep them company?) - because I think, with a lot of dedication, this could be worked out, or whether you feel that it's too much and that you would rather rehome River. It's your own decision to make, I can only hope you take into consideration what people have said and perhaps get a second opinion from a well-recommended behaviourist and make a well-informed decision. Sorry if I seem to be leaning towards you keeping her but there are so many dogs out there needing homes, if speaking my mind and suggesting alternatives could keep one in a steady home then it's worth a chance. Not the mention, as rune said, the impact it could have on the second dog - I really couldn't imagine splitting my pair up! Bear in mind that with the baby, you're going to be a lot busier, with sleepness nights etc., perhaps it would be better to keep River even just for a few months to see how things go and to let your other dog have some company until your routine settles, because for a while your baby is going to be your number one priority. A dog in a home with a dog friend, even if it's not getting as much human interaction as it previously had, is probably going to cope fine - dinner in Kongs to keep them entertained for a bit, a radio on so they have voices, pop in between baby feeds and when you have 10 minutes spare just to have a cuddle - there are dogs in kennels who get a lot less attention than that.
Also at 4 years old, she's at an age where she is going to calm down soon - my two are 4-4.5 and they have calmed down so much in the past 6-12 months, it was very noticable.

Reading back at this too
I would not say this was aggressive or predatory at all - obviously I haven't seen the situation but it sounds like a case of dog not getting attention, noticing the attention is on the baby and getting curious. Kiki will do it if I ignore her and make a lot of fuss of Casper - she'll come over, not to hurt Casper, but to see why he's getting all the fuss. I could make a big fuss over a cardboard box and Kiki's of the curious nature so she'd be straight over to see what I was holding. I don't think this is indicative of anything predatory, not if this is all that had happened, and it wouldn't be worrying me if it was my dog.

If you've made up your mind then tell me to shut up and I will do so! But I just wanted to make sure you'd considered the other options - I know when I was having problems with my dog several years ago, I would've loved to have known about somewhere like Dogsey where I could get advice, as I was quite overwhelmed and didn't have as good an understanding of her behaviour as I do now. All I had was a trainer with a bit of an old fashioned view and a vet who wasn't really trained in behavioural issues, to have been told that there are trainers with positive training methods, or dog socialisation groups, or all these other options could've really helped make the few years we had together a bit better quality and a bit less frustrating for me and the dog.
I have also seen people scaremongered into believing their dog is capable of some kind of aggression or behaviour that is not very likely, by trainers/behaviourists giving old fashioned/incorrect advice. I don't know your behaviourist but their advice doesn't sound quite right to me, hence my suggestion to get some recommendations (perhaps from local Dogsey members if they can help) for a second opinion - having professional support and good advice can really make a difference when you're in two minds.

Goodluck finding her a home Dan. I haven't heard of NIDs having such issues with children before, I can totally understand why you do not want to take chances, sounds like you have lost trust in River. I do wonder about other dogs from the same litter/lines, I am pretty sure we have all guessed the breeder by now and I have never heard this problem in her dogs before and as River is an NIS ped her breeding will be traceable. It won't help you but I think and hope this is a unique instance.

I really think youve scared yourself. I really cant see the problem. Everyone with a youn child should be careful, it sounds like you are paranoid. Loads of husky types live with kiddies with no problems.

Why do you think shes just going to "turn"????????

Where does the PREDATORY AGGRESSION come from???? these dogs are made up of Siberian Husky, Alaskan Malamute, GSD and various strays dogs...

I am not aware of any of these having predatory aggression..

Prey drive...yes...but this is normally reserved for small furry animals..

I have two alaskan malamutes who live with my kids and regularly have kids to visit..my 4 year old nephew and more recently my friends baby..(she's only 5 wks old now)..and also had a Samoyed who was only a year old when my daughter was born and he was the best babysitter in the world LOL..

I don't think it matters where it came from - you know what goes on with breeding these dogs (and, as you said, the original crosses are unknowns).

The point is that the OP is worried and does not feel he can trust the dog.
Its very sad - but it becomes no life for the dog to live that way.

Luckily he seems to be going about things the right way and looking for a decent home for her - not offering her up to just anyone who likes the look of her.

It is a sad situation, and unfortunately one that is all to common with these dogs.

I hope she can find a decent home.
Good luck Dan.

Thanks again for all the replies with some very good points, i'll try and answer all the questions.

i'll try address some points:
It was my understanding that predatory aggression is the physical manifestation of prey drive. A prey drive is the desire to carry out an attack, the predatory aggression is the attack itself. So if a dog has killed or even stalked a rabbit that is predatory aggression. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

What initially made us worry she might 'turn' is the cat she killed. It was one of our pet cats she'd grown up with since she was a puppy. The cat got up off the settee started walking to the cat flap and that's when she attacked it.

It's true we could use the same argument for both dogs. But we have to look at probablility. One dog is calm around the baby, shows no interest in it whether it's moving or crying, hasn't killed anything small and furry (that we know of). The other has killed two things, shows an interest in anything the baby does, changes it's behaviour from relaxed to alert and seeking out the baby as soon as it thinks no-ones looking. We would never fully trust any dog with a baby, but we trust one of them less than the other, in our minds (and the behaviouist who came to the house and observed Rivers behaviour with the baby) there's a much high probability of an incident with River.

With regards her age calming her down, this is something that we are hoping will happen if we keep her. She already has calmed down alot since she was a pup, she listens to us more, and she likes cuddles even more too! She will actually give you a hug and it's certainly something we look forward to if we keep her.

I'd like to make it clear that we won't put her to sleep or take her to a kennels or anything like that. We are OK to keep things as they are. Our baby is 7months old now and we can continue as we are. We have made the garage as nice a place to be as we can, it's not a standard size garage, it's bigger than most, it's well lit, they have insulated beds out there, and I have heaters for them for when it gets cold. We go outside with them, several times a day to play games and fuss them, they are walked everyday and given treats, toys and chews. We would like to keep her, we really really would we aren't trying to rehome her because we don't like her, what's prompted us to try and find a home is three things.

The first is that our other dog is starting to get upset at not coming in the house, we do let him in every day until River gets upset that she's missing out. When outside he lies next to the front door and he seems to be becoming what i'd call depressed (I know it's anthropomorphic) he only seems to brighten up when he's inside. We realise if River left it may cause other problems with him, but we are fine with putting in the work and the training to correct it. We feel we're comprising the welfare of one dog for the others sake.

The second is that up until last year myself and my wife had jobs which worked out that at least one of us was at home all week. Unfortunately I was made redundant and need to find new work. If I have to work in the week, then the dogs will be on their own for most of the day. River becomes very agitated if left alone for short periods, despite all the training we've done to try and stop it and regardless of how many treat filled toys and puzzles we leave with her.

Third is the predatory thing. As was mentioned, the vast majority of NIs are friendly with children (one of the reasons why we chose the breed). As has been mentioned though the origins of some of the lines of NI are somewhat murky there may not be just GSD, malamut and husky in there and in some individuals certain traits might be more pronounced. Looking at Rivers pedigree form, you don't have to go back far to get to dogs that probably wouldn't be classed as NI. Also we still have another cat so it would mean keeping both the baby and the cat away from her.

As i've mentioned I won't put her to sleep, but I thought if I put her on here there could be a chance that she could go to a better home. It was a longshot, but there could someone with an adult only household, maybe retired or worked from home, perhaps with a labrador or similar sized dog she could play with. They might be looking for a companion for their dog and wanted a cuddly, intelligent, and energetic dog full of character and River would be perfect. It was always unlikely we'd find a perfect home, but it would greatly improve the welfare of both dogs if we could.

You have obviously lost trust, so I think it is best the dog is rehomed, though do think it's very sad all round.

If it's any help, I live with a dog with a very high prey drive for small furry animals, he lives with 2 kids and two cats. He has hunted and killed in the past, but is a big baby with my kids, and any kids that come in the house. He is interested in them as play friends, and I always supervise him when other kids come round, but I do that with my Goldie too. If kids are messing about and being kids, then the dogs gets put in another room, as they can get too bouncy for some kids, but I have never seen anything where he reacts to the kids like prey.

Good luck in finding her a home, it must be awful to not be able to trust your dog, best of luck xxxx