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Location: tamworth
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
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13-03-2008, 07:11 PM
I take it you mean new top of the range 4x4's are safer, older 4x4's, especially ones owned by the prats that have bull bars fitted to them, are only safe for the people inside the 4x4, not pedestrians or cyclists
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Location: Romford, uk
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
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13-03-2008, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by jenny tamworth 
[I]SAFETY — 4x4s are inherently safer vehicles than normal cars and so cost less to insure — increasingly they are packed with technology that makes them even safer [/i]
I take it you mean new top of the range 4x4's are safer, older 4x4's, especially ones owned by the prats that have bull bars fitted to them, are only safe for the people inside the 4x4, not pedestrians or cyclists
DfT and Government Office statistics show that buses are bigger killers of pedestrians (per km driven) than all cars, and that Light Commercials typified by the Ford Transit, which have similar dimensions and driving positions to 4x4s, are actually the safest group of vehicles on the road in terms of pedestrian deaths and injuries
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Location: Here !
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,681
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13-03-2008, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by jenny tamworth
[I]SAFETY — 4x4s are inherently safer vehicles than normal cars and so cost less to insure — increasingly they are packed with technology that makes them even safer [/I]
I take it you mean new top of the range 4x4's are safer, older 4x4's, especially ones owned by the prats that have bull bars fitted to them, are only safe for the people inside the 4x4, not pedestrians or cyclists
I'm a 4x4 driver and don't really have a choice. We live in the middle of nowhere and have had other smaller cars, which have been ruined by the country roads and sheep sh*t and dead pheasants and badgers
so a 4x4 is the only vehicle that will do whilst we are here in this environment.I don't understand why people dispise them !!!!
Do the same people moan about delivery vans, buses and so on ?
Do the same people dislike the fact that we, as owners, pay more for fuel and tax ?
Do they dislike the fact that fuel emmissions gases from ALL cars are nothing to the amount of cow farts ??
and on your last point about the safety of pedestrians and cyclists :
a) pedestrians shouldnt be on the road !
b) cyclists don't have priority as they don't pay road tax or Insurance !
What about the cyclists who cause accidents, and the drivers of cars cannot claim, because cyclists don't pay Insurance !
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Location: South East UK
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,437
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13-03-2008, 07:28 PM
Do you follow them 24/7. A 4x4 takes up no more room on the road than a large saloon or estate, Yes they are taller, they give a better view of the road etc. Maybe you just think they're looking down their noses at you, or maybe they are reacting to your attitude towards them. who knows. I still don't see what relevance the size of the house they live in has to what car they drive. Maybe they block the road at school times as they only have the one vehicle and they need it for something else at other times and a KA or a Micra just wont do.[/QUI really don't know, I really don't care, all I know is, I don't like the stuck up attitude that normally goes with owning one nowadays, when they don't need all that space. Yes of course anyone can have what the h*ll they want if they've got the money, my o/h does, but at the end of the day, if there really is no necessity to have such a humungous great big vehicle, sticking out taking up 1 1/2 spaces in the supermarket car park (which they do!!!) or holding up the traffic outside a school, or coming straight at me down the centre of a road full of parked cars coz they're bigger than me, then why have one in the first place if it's not just to be flash, which some people (SOME people) think they are in them! Apart from that they're not kind to our planet - apparently!
Anyone can have what they want, regardless of what type of house they live in (lol!!!
), but anyone can also have an opinion, and personally I don't like them much anymore, I used to when I had one, but then it was so useful to me at the time, and I believe in having things to suit your needs, I'm a very practical gal!
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Location: Here !
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,681
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13-03-2008, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54
I really don't know, I really don't care, all I know is, I don't like the stuck up attitude that normally goes with owning one nowadays, when they don't need all that space. Yes of course anyone can have what the h*ll they want if they've got the money, my o/h does, but at the end of the day, if there really is no necessity to have such a humungous great big vehicle, sticking out taking up 1 1/2 spaces in the supermarket car park (which they do!!!) or holding up the traffic outside a school, or coming straight at me down the centre of a road full of parked cars coz they're bigger than me, then why have one in the first place if it's not just to be flash, which some people (SOME people) think they are in them! Apart from that they're not kind to our planet - apparently!
Anyone can have what they want, regardless of what type of house they live in (lol!!!
), but anyone can also have an opinion, and personally I don't like them much anymore, I used to when I had one, but then it was so useful to me at the time, and I believe in having things to suit your needs, I'm a very practical gal!
and what makes you think that the people who hold up traffic outside of schools wouldnt do exactly the same in any other car, which I'm sure they did before 4x4's were trendy !
I'm sorry but the arguments are very juvenile, as they same can apply to any other car on the road
As for being unkind to the planet, the majority of cars (some with bigger engines, some small cars with struggling engines) actually produce more emmissions, so again that argument is nonsense
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Location: Romford, uk
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
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13-03-2008, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble
A few facts to ponder
FACTSHEET
Anti-4x4 ranters are typically heavy on emotive claptrap and short on facts (mainly because they haven't got any facts), so here are some facts:
Anti-4x4 ranters are typically heavy on emotive claptrap and short on facts (mainly because they haven't got any facts), so here are some facts:
CONGESTION - 4x4s are insignificant contributors to congestion and those that do sit in jams actually improve matters!
- Unlike their US counterparts, European 4x4s have a smaller 'footprint' on the road than similarly priced saloons. A Range Rover is 20cm shorter than a Mercedes S class, and a Toyota RAV4 is a massive 47cm shorter than a Ford Mondeo!
- 4x4 vehicles account for only 3% of the cars on the road — that means that in London there are three times as many buses and fifteen times as many taxis entering the central area every day than 4x4s (figures from TfL)
FUEL CONSUMPTION & USAGE — 4x4s in the UK are very different from those in the US. There is already a big incentive to buy fuel efficient vehicles (called fuel duty) and most people opt for the most economical 4x4s.
- Fuel consumption figures for 4x4s vary greatly, but the vast majority sold in the UK are diesel engined and do between 25 and 42mpg — they are comparable to family saloons not '12mpg gas guzzlers'
- Luxury 4x4 vehicles sold in the UK average 27.4mpg according to Spyder Automotive, comparing well with the 28.4mpg achieved by luxury saloons and 27mpg for premium sports cars.
- The Honda CRV 2.2d manages 42 mpg combined, the seven seat Discovery TDV6 does 30mpg. The new Lexus RX400h hybrid delivers 32mpg despite having a powerful petrol engine and automatic transmission.
- 4x4s that do consume more fuel than average also have drivers that already pay more fuel duty, because over 70% of the price of fuel is tax. This is the biggest incentive to restrict sales of these vehicles, and its working. The Land Rover Discovery is the best selling heavy duty 4x4 and 99% of buyers opt for the 30mpg diesel rather than the petrol engined models featured in the publicity material of the anti 4x4 groups
- A fairer comparison on fuel consumption would take into account usage annual mileage — many 4x4s are used for towing and carrying whilst longer trips are made by the second family car.
- A 4x4 can provide transport for up to 9 people at a time (Defender 110 Station Wagon)
- Older petrol engined 4x4s invariably either do a very low annual mileage or are converted to environmentally friendly LPG. These are usually bought due to real customer need — off road use or heavy duty towing.
TAXATION — special taxes on 4x4s would be unfair on those who really need them — and, anyway, what is a 4x4?
- The Environment Transport Agency says that drivers have been hit too hard by the carbon debate
- Other forms of taxation on 4x4s (higher VED or congestion charge) would be less fair than fuel duty and they would penalise:
- essential users like farmers along with urban dwellers
- those who do a low mileage and so dont burn much fuel
- those who choose a more economical 4x4 - Transport for London recently admitted that they could not define a 4x4 robustly. There are many 4x4 cars on the road, like the Jaguar X TYPE and the Audi Quattro models. Equally, some 4x4 models like the Nissan X-Trail are available with front wheel drive only.
SAFETY — 4x4s are inherently safer vehicles than normal cars and so cost less to insure — increasingly they are packed with technology that makes them even safer
- All types of car will have to meet the same stringent pedestrian impact tests (new models from 2006, all cars from 2011). The Honda CR-V (the second best selling 4x4 in the UK) already achieves the top rated NCAP 3 star rating for pedestrian safety
- DfT and Government Office statistics show that buses are bigger killers of pedestrians (per km driven) than all cars, and that Light Commercials typified by the Ford Transit, which have similar dimensions and driving positions to 4x4s, are actually the safest group of vehicles on the road in terms of pedestrian deaths and injuries.
- Arguments about weight in car to car impacts could equally apply to all cars — a new VW Golf GTI weighs twice as much as the 1970's original, largely due to better crash performance and increased safety features.
- 4 wheel drive makes cars safer in poor road conditions, and the higher driving position of SUVs gives a better view of the road ahead, which is the most crucial accident avoidance measure of all
- Most of the more expensive 4x4s are now fitted with parking sensors that aid manoeuvring in tight spaces, reducing the risk of hitting low objects like children — close to the vehicle
- 4x4s typically have lower insurance groupings than similarly priced saloons indicating a better safety record.
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Location: Romford, uk
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
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13-03-2008, 07:34 PM
personally I don't like them much anymore, I used to when I had one, but then it was so useful to me at the time, and I believe in having things to suit your needs, I'm a very practical gal!
[/quote] Oh right it was ok when you had one Let people decide what they need for themselves, after all they are the ones paying for and using the thing.
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Location: South East UK
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,437
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13-03-2008, 07:34 PM
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