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louise!
Dogsey Senior
louise! is offline  
Location: Bolton/Lancashire
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 285
Female 
 
13-06-2012, 12:06 PM
Apart from swearing at you and hitting her fence to try and get your dogs away from hers, what has she actually done wrong? I know the loss of the friendship is upsetting, but honestly if my dog was attacked twice, even if it was a 'handbags at dawn' type attack, I wouldn't be best pleased either. As for swearing, I'm 5'3 and pathetically weedy but when my puppy was rolled by a reactive dog a month ago the words which came out of my mouth wouldn't have been misplaced in a football stand during a match against two rivals I understand that YOU wouldn't react in that way when it has happened to you, but that's not to say that no one else can. People react in different ways when they're scared and angry, just like dogs do. The fact that you seem to think one of the attacks was somehow her fault for not screaming I AM LEAVING MY HOUSE!! to let you know she was walking across her own driveway () suggests to me that you haven't been altogether remorseful about the situation either.

Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
However, all that said I STILL blame myself because as you rightly point out they are my dogs, on my drive, loose (God forbid that one should ever let one's dogs off the lead on their own property), and so therefore I was responsible for them. Actually, my 2 were perfectly well mannered. They went dashing up to the dogs and greeted them. All tails were wagging, all was fine until the black lab growled at Ben - so my dogs were not totally to blame. I don't know many male dogs who will put up with another male of equal size growling at them on their own property!
But it's not your own property - it's a shared driveway. Why should she have to announce her presence just so you realise you have to get your dogs under control? They should be in control ANYWAY. As for her dog 'starting it' by growling, of course he growled. He was clearly alarmed at being approached by your dog who has had issues with him in the past. I don't blame him.
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Gnasher
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13-06-2012, 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by Lottie View Post
I also agree with parts of this - my dogs go out in the garden unsupervised to a degree (I can see the garden from where I am inside and can get out there in seconds if necessary) because I've had them in it for years without them having any problems.

Despite this, I always lock the gate so nobody can attempt to open it and let them out or come in while they're in it and if I pop upstairs to the loo, they come in and wait inside because if anything happened it'd take me longer to get out.

Likewise, I agree with the idea re. the fencing - as has been said, you didn't know Ben could clear the fencing before - we had a crossbreed when I was young who could clear an eight foot high dog run from a standing start with seemingly little effort (ok, so he may have been part kangeroo!!) - not at all common, but he could do it! It wouldn't hurt to take extra precautions by doubling up the fencing as suggested
Thanx darling. Garden is now totally dog proof - they can't get out, gates have double bolts from the inside, fence really doesn't need any more attention. All we need to do now is to block them from getting to next door's fence, which won't take a jiffy at the weekend. the prickly climbing roses, macrocarpa and honeysuckle are all icing on the cake!
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krlyr
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13-06-2012, 12:07 PM
I think pippam was saying to see how easily you'd let the situation go, rather than that you let Ben go. Struggling to see how it is their fault in any part for walking past your garden though. Just because they have an alternative way to walk, doesn't mean they can't walk the other way if it is part of their access and you're yet again trying to transfer some blame onto them Casper can bark at the neighbour's dogs if they come right up to the fence and I call him away straight away, I do not blame the neighbours for having their dogs where they should be. My dog's behaviour is my responsiblity and Ben's is yours. I'm not surprised by their attitude if the stance you're taking is that they're somehow responsible in part for both incidents
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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13-06-2012, 12:11 PM
It might be an idea to double cover your back - and to help you all as well of course - to get some behavioural help for Ben?
Just thinking a couple of things here
Obviously you have known for a while that he has issues especially with big black dogs
and that wont have been helped any by this issue
Also of course your insurance now has a claim for him injuring another dog (although of course their claim sounds very iffy!)
and your neighbours are now out to get you and your dogs - so although you feel you have done everything (which in many respects you have) this woud be another extra for you incase you end up with the police at your door

Trust me, I know - I had the police turn up at my door with a report that my dogs were neglected and never walked or paid any attention to - the police man said all this too me while inspecting my dogs rosettes and trophies for agility and KCGDC awards
saves a whole lot of time and effort in the long run
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Gnasher
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13-06-2012, 12:12 PM
Originally Posted by Lottie View Post
I see what you're saying - and I don't know gnasher's background etc. (and I didn't read the whole thread either actually, which was one thing I used to tell myself off for when I used the forums before!).

However, I was thinking from the owner of the DA dog's point of view, having done as much as it seemed gnasher had done it was very unfair. (I was unaware of the refusal to muzzle the dog which I would be far less understanding of).
MY DOG IS MUZZLED where and when necessary? Who has ever said he wasn't? You mustn't listen to every bit of catty gossip Lottie!

Facts are next door knew about Ben's DA, he is muzzled whenever we walk him anywhere where we cannot see who or what is behind us or near us, he is on the lead also, believe me Lottie, we have done EVERYTHING and far more than most people would have done vis a vis the whole Ben situation and next door. They have absolutely no excuse at all to say they didn't know.

However, all that said I STILL blame us, the humans, because I am a reasonable person. What I am bleating on about is the fact that the level of aggression from her next door is just rising and rising, instead of depleting.

Incidentally, the dog in question is absolutely fine. Saw him the other morning bounding round the garden as fit as a fiddle, and of course talked to him through the fence last weekend, although I couldn't see him. I wasn't sure whose nose was whose, but both noses the other side were licking and snuffling with Ben, so clearly the black lab has recovered completely and is happy to "talk" to Ben.

Far from being the dog who is scarred for life mentally and physically, according to Her.
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krlyr
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13-06-2012, 12:13 PM
You only started to muzzle Ben from January this year, the posts are on the forum for anyone to read, it's not catty gossip.
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Jeltz
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Location: Near Bath UK
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13-06-2012, 12:13 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
The gap at the bottom of the fence is so tiny, I don't think we would be able to do much with it. Best that we just block off that part of the garden, which we can easily do with some sort of barrier between the back fence and the conservatory. In addition, it is their fence, not our's, so we would have to ask permission and I don't think I need to elaborate any more on whether THAT would be met with approval!!
I get what you are saying but personally I would stick some 3" square fence posts laid down in front of the gap, or even a railway sleeper just so the dogs can have free access to the whole garden without her being able to poke anything through.
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Gnasher
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13-06-2012, 12:14 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
It might be an idea to double cover your back - and to help you all as well of course - to get some behavioural help for Ben?
Just thinking a couple of things here
Obviously you have known for a while that he has issues especially with big black dogs
and that wont have been helped any by this issue
Also of course your insurance now has a claim for him injuring another dog (although of course their claim sounds very iffy!)
and your neighbours are now out to get you and your dogs - so although you feel you have done everything (which in many respects you have) this woud be another extra for you incase you end up with the police at your door

Trust me, I know - I had the police turn up at my door with a report that my dogs were neglected and never walked or paid any attention to - the police man said all this too me while inspecting my dogs rosettes and trophies for agility and KCGDC awards
saves a whole lot of time and effort in the long run
Onto it already Ben. I am contacting the local Puppy Group for advice as to where I could take Ben in a muzzle. I want a group training class, I don't want individual sessions. The dog needs to be put into situations where he will display aggression towards other large male dogs, in particular large black dogs. Safely muzzled and leashed, he won't be able to do any damage and we can address his issues. He is 6 now, but I always say it is never too late. Look at what we have achieved in the 2 years we have had him. I am so proud of him, and will work on it.

Thanx darling
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Gnasher
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13-06-2012, 12:16 PM
Originally Posted by Jeltz View Post
I get what you are saying but personally I would stick some 3" square fence posts laid down in front of the gap, or even a railway sleeper just so the dogs can have free access to the whole garden without her being able to poke anything through.
Unfortunately the fence is on a block paving pathway, but LOVE the idea of railway sleepers. Even SHE wouldn't be able to poke anything through them! thanx
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louise!
Dogsey Senior
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Location: Bolton/Lancashire
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Female 
 
13-06-2012, 12:16 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post

Facts are next door knew about Ben's DA, he is muzzled whenever we walk him anywhere where we cannot see who or what is behind us or near us, he is on the lead also, believe me Lottie, we have done EVERYTHING and far more than most people would have done vis a vis the whole Ben situation and next door. They have absolutely no excuse at all to say they didn't know.
.
I still don't understand this. Why should they have to take your aggressive dog into account? It is your dog, it is your responsibility to control him. It is not their reponsibility to ensure he is in control before they leave their house, it is your reponsibility to make sure he is ALWAYS controlled so they do not have to. Whether they know he is DA or not makes absolutely no difference because he is YOUR dog. I don't think letting a dog run unsupervised around your drive "dashing up" [direct quote] to their dogs with "tails wagging" equals doing "EVERYTHING and more".
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