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Trouble
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24-02-2008, 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by scarter View Post
Thanks for this!!

OK - 'peopley stuff' was the wrong expression. Let me try and explain. At one extreme I see the people that treat their dogs as people - at the other extreme I see people that treat their dogs as dogs (perhaps kept outside and not really interracting much with the family). I want to be somewhere in between. I want my dog to be a dog that lives with a family of humans and is an important part of that family. I want it to have character.

Ok. well I think the vast majority of dog owners fall into the same category as yourself. I know I do.

Anyway, your explanation is good but I have a couple more questions if you don't mind

I totally get what you're saying about it being OK for the dog to do anything provided you are in charge and you say what goes. I like this!

What I have trouble grasping is at what stage in your puppies development you can switch from 'blanket rules' to letting it do things sometimes and not others? For example, my pup is typically as good as gold when we put her in her crate. At worst she'll wimper for 20 seconds. However, if we respond to that wimpering it will take many days of ignoring 5 minutes of tantrums to undo the damage.

Just remember they are your rules, they can be whatever you want them to be, but be consistent with them. Why do you respond to her whimpering on some occasions and not others, and how are you responding?.


Do you see what I'm getting at? I know I'm not explaing myself very well. But should I have hard and fast rules right now until she's learnt to do as she's told or is it OK to chop and change?
As with any training consistency is the key.
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dollyknockers
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24-02-2008, 06:14 PM
Personally I don't watch Cm , But have to say im finding everyone views on him very interesting , The only reason may I add as to why I do not watch him is because I cant stand his voice , Sorry if that annoys anyone but his voice irratates the hell out of me XXDK
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Borderdawn
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24-02-2008, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
I hate the programme, I don't like what I see on it at all, largely because I don't like the thought of people who have no understanding of what he does, going out and using the methods on poor old Fido who is actually not a bad pooch at all.
As for him???
I think he is a little full of himself, BUT I think, from what you see, his heart is in the right place and I do believe he genuinely cares for the dogs. I just don't like what I see of his methods.

Perhaps I should, from what's been said on here, read one of his books, if it says something different...
People will copy anything they see Ailsa, not just CM. For example on another forum, I read about a perosn who's dog was a dog biter when on walks, lunged at other dogs. They copied the stones in a tin method seen on Dog Borstal (I like this program too) after what they thought was an initial success, they found they had a dog that was frightened of all sorts of sudden noises, gravel on roads, bangs, things falling etc... Im sure due to incorrect use of the stone tin, which like all CM's methods can be effective IF used correctly.

Horses for courses, take each dog as you find it, I guarantee you all methods will not work all dogs, certain types and breeds demand firmer handling and stricter control, some breeds are very sensitive and require a much softer approach.
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mse2ponder
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24-02-2008, 06:40 PM
I do watch CM but i see it as a form of entertainment and don't watch it to get "tips" on training. I thoroughly disagree with the various collars used but i understand that these aren't the backbone of his methods.. i do however, think that advocating these on a TV program is irresponsible.. he may not directly urge people to buy them, but when quick results are portrayed, often through the use of them, it's foolish not to expect the general public to try and replicate these techniques.

I can't really understand how people who've only watched the TV programme use his techniques.. i'd genuinely like to know, as i don't think there's anything appropriate on there for me to use on my dog.. i'm not having a dig i promise! just can't think really what would be useful to use with regard to the average dog? i haven't read the book and i'm sure there is some useful stuff in ther from what Trouble has said, but i'm just left wondering about the TV programme..
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Wolfie
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24-02-2008, 06:46 PM
While I disagree with most of CM's training, and personally don't like the man, I can't condemn those who use his methods. If it works for you and your dog, then who are we to critisize.

As I've already posted on another thread, I fostered a dog who's owner used CM's methods from 10 months old. I taked to his owner about maybe changing training methods, but she loves CM, so I left it at that.

My own training methods are probably a bit of everything, as well as trying to understand dog behaviour and pack ranking. It works for me, and I've had some horror dogs over the years
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Trouble
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24-02-2008, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Perhaps I should, from what's been said on here, read one of his books, if it says something different...
I would never dream of offending your sensibilities by suggesting you go and buy a book further swelling his ample coffers, how about the library, would they have it?
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mse2ponder
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24-02-2008, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
While I disagree with most of CM's training, and personally don't like the man, I can't condemn those who use his methods. If it works for you and your dog, then who are we to critisize.
oh i didn't mean it in a critical way - i just wondered what methods people use from the TV programme? i don't think there are any tha would be suitable for my dog but i'm sure people must have found things they can use from it - or do most people view it as entertainment?
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Trouble
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24-02-2008, 07:12 PM
Personally I view all the doggy tv programs in pretty much the same way, entertainment.
Wolfie what does that say about that dogs owner though she was using a training method that I guess wasn't working and yet insisted on sticking with it because she likes CM. That's plain stoooopid.
You know what I love Galaxy chocolate but if I'm trying to lose weight I just have to accept that it aint gonna work if I carry on eating the stuff
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Inca
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24-02-2008, 07:19 PM
PS just for the record i didn;t start this one i have only just seen it myself
sigh
sigh
here we go again
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Ramble
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24-02-2008, 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
People will copy anything they see Ailsa, not just CM. For example on another forum, I read about a perosn who's dog was a dog biter when on walks, lunged at other dogs. They copied the stones in a tin method seen on Dog Borstal (I like this program too) after what they thought was an initial success, they found they had a dog that was frightened of all sorts of sudden noises, gravel on roads, bangs, things falling etc... Im sure due to incorrect use of the stone tin, which like all CM's methods can be effective IF used correctly.

Horses for courses, take each dog as you find it, I guarantee you all methods will not work all dogs, certain types and breeds demand firmer handling and stricter control, some breeds are very sensitive and require a much softer approach.
See you got me agreeing with you again...

These threads are making me think as I really don't like the methods I see him use, but it is another case where the programme is short and you don't get a full history on the dog and family etc so it is very hard to judge.

I hate CM's tv shows, but do watch them on occassion because I love dogs and am interested in what people do if there is a problem. I enjoy watching thinking 'I wonder if this way or that way would work better'... I buy a Sunday paper that spouts loads of stuff I disagree with, but I think that keeps your brain alive more than buying one that you agree with all the time!!!
I also like Dog Borstal , I think Lynn is amazing and Mick Martin is ok..but that rattle bottle.....

I saw a young couple in the park with dogs...one was a young weimeraner (sorry can never spell that) and it wouldn't come back to them when called. It was a lovely dog, big and bouncy. Anyway, all their dogs (2 or 3) had headed over to me and were following me, the dog I had with me and my cheese! This couple were shouting away to no avail so I stood still... I still had more dogs than I set off with...so I headed back towards them to give the dogs some chance of getting their recall right! Anyway, got the dogs there, they headed back to the owners...but then set off again, at which point they produced......a rattle bottle.....and shook it when the dog didn't come back and headed towards me!!!!!! Apparently they'd seen it on the tele.....

I like CM more than the guy with the rattle bottle....
I don't like some of CM's methods...BUT the other side of that is that I do like some stuff I see him do...the dog that hated the car for example, he taught how to jump up onto a wall, then got him jumping into a car, thought that was good....
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