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Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
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02-10-2009, 06:45 AM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy 
I`ve seen an angry dog about to attack. The blood vessels in the eyes don`t swell and make the eyes look red. The eyes go `hard` and the pupils dilate.
Gnasher you really don`t like letting reality get in the way of a good argument, do you?
Unless we can get back to the subject of the title of this thread, I no longer wish to participate.
There you are CC - you see I AM impatient after all !!
Bye everyone.
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Location: UK
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02-10-2009, 07:08 AM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua
I get your point Wys but isn't that what it's all about. You do things one way, CM another. It's all about choice for the dog owners. They get to choose which way they want their dog trained. Horses for courses and all that. What worked for the Michael Vick Pitts might not work for another dog
and I guess we won't agree so must agree to differ! 
I think that it is wrong to choose a method that may cause more problems (as we know that severe punishment can have fallout - eg the dog associating the other dog with owner being extremely harsh to it, and then becoming worse with other dogs because of it - it happens a lot).
Owners trust experts, esp. tv experts... but those experts may have been chosen for their charisma and not their understanding of canine behaviour.
But as I said, we will need to agree to disagree on this one!
Wys
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Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
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02-10-2009, 07:57 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
Right, that's it I'm off. For about the 100th hundredth time I was ******* joking. It is called irony, poetic licence, whatever the ******* word is, I don't care, I have lost my patience.
Unless we can get back to the subject of the title of this thread, I no longer wish to participate.
There you are CC - you see I AM impatient after all !!
Bye everyone.
You backtracked.
Good decision to stop now though.
rune
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Location: cornwall uk
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02-10-2009, 08:04 AM
I get your point Wys but isn't that what it's all about. You do things one way, CM another. It's all about choice for the dog owners. They get to choose which way they want their dog trained. Horses for courses and all that. What worked for the Michael Vick Pitts might not work for another dog>>>>
Would you bring the same thoughts to teaching children?
Some parents would back a teacher who beat their child---and it might work----does that make it right?
OTOH that child might internalise it and go on to beat their own children.
Simplistic but it will do for an example.
rune
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Location: n/a
Joined: Sep 2008
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02-10-2009, 09:35 AM
Originally Posted by Promethean
Obviously I do, my annoying troll. You keep responding
I suggest you pay attention, halfwit, you are not 'women'. What you are is an internet loser, with far too much sense of entitlement and too little sense to know better.
If you spent less time whining about how you are being victimized and spent more time thinking, these discussion would not be getting off topic.
I think it's time you grew up, shut up and started to act like a man, really
I have a picture of you in my mind and it AIN'T PRETTY You talk about me being a half-wit and yet you call me a "troll" - please, that's the sort of thing my 13 year old would say to someone who was touching a raw nerve!
Like I said, grow a pair! I'm used to dealing with proper men in my life and real men don't sit calling women "halfwit" and "troll" and yes, I will keep responding because I don't feel intimidated or bothered by you and I enjoy watching you getting all annoyed, which you clearly are, hence your childish outburst. Now, I'll say goodbye and get back to the thread. Try not to sabotage it again won't you
Not that it bothers me, I find you sooooooooooo amusing
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Location: n/a
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02-10-2009, 09:39 AM
Originally Posted by Promethean
One sure sign of ignorance is people who are sure about things they know nothing about.
In fact, clicker training can be applied very effectively in such cases. Of course, it begins by not shoving the dog's face into the triggering stimulus. It begins by controlling the environment, and if you pay close attention how we do it with human, it is the same method. Enviromental control is key to behavioral modification.
If Millan ran a rehab clinic, he would shove a junkie in to a crack house and then start hitting them when they tried to use.
My impression is that most owners; specially those enamored with dominance miss all the signals. If you can look at a dog with whale-eye and think it is calm, then your ability to discern canine body language is non-existent.
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Location: n/a
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02-10-2009, 09:44 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
Right, that's it I'm off. For about the 100th hundredth time I was ******* joking. It is called irony, poetic licence, whatever the ******* word is, I don't care, I have lost my patience.
Unless we can get back to the subject of the title of this thread, I no longer wish to participate.
There you are CC - you see I AM impatient after all !!Bye everyone.
I think you've done well to put up with what you have up to now.It's a shame because this thread was really getting back on track yesterday. I was actually starting to enjoy discussing CM again without people shoving their tripe down your throat and then, log on today and Promethean is playing up (nothing unusual there I suppose) and still more chit chat ripping you apart
When will some people learn
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02-10-2009, 09:47 AM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg
I get your point too CC
and I guess we won't agree so must agree to differ! I think that it is wrong to choose a method that may cause more problems (as we know that severe punishment can have fallout - eg the dog associating the other dog with owner being extremely harsh to it, and then becoming worse with other dogs because of it - it happens a lot).
Owners trust experts, esp. tv experts... but those experts may have been chosen for their charisma and not their understanding of canine behaviour.
But as I said, we will need to agree to disagree on this one!
Wys
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Joined: Sep 2008
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02-10-2009, 09:58 AM
Originally Posted by rune
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua
I get your point Wys but isn't that what it's all about. You do things one way, CM another. It's all about choice for the dog owners. They get to choose which way they want their dog trained. Horses for courses and all that. What worked for the Michael Vick Pitts might not work for another dog>>>>
Would you bring the same thoughts to teaching children?
Some parents would back a teacher who beat their child---and it might work----does that make it right?
OTOH that child might internalise it and go on to beat their own children.
Simplistic but it will do for an example.
rune
CM doesn't "beat" dogs either. I think (being as you want to associate training of children to dogs) you'd find that even a teacher in today's "hands off" approach, would have the right to restrain a child that was out of control. That's all CM does when you talk about him stringing a dog up and the like. He isn't actually doing anything, just holding the dog on a lead. It's the dog that "strings" itself up by refusing to allow CM to restrain him/her.
If one of my childrens' teachers were to "beat" them, then they'd have a severe problem to deal with (in the form of a very angry me). However, if one of my children were out of control, had lost the plot and the teacher, say, held them in some sort of hold, then I don't see I'd be able to even complain, as the teacher would be acting in the best interests of all in the close vicinity.
You have a right to your opinion (albeit totally different to my own) and I respect it