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NickyAnn
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24-05-2016, 10:32 AM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
Shows what little you know about this condition in GSDs. DM has nothing to do with dysplasia.
I said that I saw a 10 month old shepherd with dysplasia, which happens because morons breed sick dogs. No known carrier dog of any disease should be bred, ever.

Get a kennel club to say that I am wrong.
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NickyAnn
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24-05-2016, 10:36 AM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
Thanks Lynn - I have just been reading a few other posts by this person and you are 100% right.
So you are not going to take my advise and breed the effected carrier dog, or you can take my advise and not permit this to happen in the future to other puppies. http://www.speakingforspot.com/Image...degenmyelo.jpg You are brilliant, we need more breeders like you.
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tawneywolf
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24-05-2016, 10:39 AM
Yes I do all health tests required, and more besides and never breed from untested dogs, and I know if one of mine tested as a carrier then I would exclude them from breeding and if in the unlikely event of them being rehomed they would be spayed/neutered before they went. Reason being there are complete morons out there who will lie to you. I would not want to be knowingly responsible for the suffering of innocent puppies. You have no cast iron guarantee that a carrier would not be bred from,best not to breed them it in the first place. Just my opinion
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NickyAnn
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24-05-2016, 10:41 AM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
I don't see how it is irresponsible when there is a general question mark over the efficacy of the test itself. As I said, we will not know until years of testing, including live dogs and necropsies on affected dogs that have previously been tested, show any kind of consistency with the DM test as it exists today.

The advice I have had is NOT to exclude a dog or bitch from a breeding program just because it is a carrier (carrier is NOT affected) but it will take several generations of testing for DM on both affected and normal dogs for enough data to substantiate the accuracy and applicability of this test.

A test is only as good as its accuracy level, surely?

Also, don't forget that carriers (if the test is right) will never produce "affected" puppies but only clear and more carriers. If only clear and carrier pups were bred then in the future DM should be eradicated from the breed, whilst keeping a healthy gene pool. However, it is never as simple as that.

In personal terms, my dog is likely to be used at stud once to the veterinarian's WL bitch who has tested clear. We will keep a puppy each, and the other pups from the litter will be sold to equally responsible GSD owners/trainers who have the breed's welfare at heart.

I actually spoke to the GSD Breed Council of UK Health Coordinator and she affirmed that breeding carrier to clear is fine, as pups can then be tested too.

Out of interest, do your dogs (who obviously have GSD in their make-up) suffer from DM and are breeders testing for it? Did you do all the health tests required for all breeds in your types make-up prior to breeding?
This is why it is irresponsible, and you need to see a psychologist if you disagree.

http://www.speakingforspot.com/Image...degenmyelo.jpg

https://www.google.com/search?q=dege...ih=649#imgrc=_

Why would you intentionally breed dogs that can not walk? and the disease is not kinder if you call it DM instead of,

Degenerative Myelopathy?


Degenerative myelopathy is a progressive disease of the spinal cord in older dogs. The disease has an insidious onset typically between 8 and 14 years of age. It begins with a loss of coordination (ataxia) in the hind limbs. The affected dog will wobble when walking, knuckle over or drag the feet. This can first occur in one hind limb and then affect the other. As the disease progresses, the limbs become weak and the dog begins to buckle and has difficulty standing. The weakness gets progressively worse until the dog is unable to walk. The clinical course can range from 6 months to 1 year before dogs become paraplegic.


Are you serious?
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Moobli
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24-05-2016, 11:04 AM
Originally Posted by tawneywolf View Post
Yes I do all health tests required, and more besides and never breed from untested dogs, and I know if one of mine tested as a carrier then I would exclude them from breeding and if in the unlikely event of them being rehomed they would be spayed/neutered before they went. Reason being there are complete morons out there who will lie to you. I would not want to be knowingly responsible for the suffering of innocent puppies. You have no cast iron guarantee that a carrier would not be bred from,best not to breed them it in the first place. Just my opinion
I could only see one dog on your website tested for DM?
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Moobli
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24-05-2016, 11:05 AM
Originally Posted by NickyAnn View Post
So you are not going to take my advise and breed the effected carrier dog, or you can take my advise and not permit this to happen in the future to other puppies. http://www.speakingforspot.com/Image...degenmyelo.jpg You are brilliant, we need more breeders like you.
Please familiarise yourself with DM in the GSD and what affected, carrier and clear means.
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tawneywolf
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24-05-2016, 11:11 AM
Well before the availability of genetic testing, I had dobies. ALL FOUR went on to develop this terrible disease, they weren't related. Vet said it was 'one of those things' and there was no test to determine who had it, you just had to wait and see. As it doesn't show itself till around 6-8 years old that meant I had been breeding puppies with the potential to develop DM or The Wobbles as it was known. I never bred my blue girl, she developed it, but at least she never passed it on, in fact I never ever bred another dobie. When walking was no longer possible, they took that sad one way trip to the vet. Once my blue girl, Piaf, went there were no more dobies, as to me the risk was too great. Hence the fact I am red hot on health testing, if the test is available I will do it. I think it's about time the KC made health testing mandatory for all dogs shown or bred from, no tests, no registration for puppies or entry into the ring after a certain age when the relevant test for that breed should have been completed
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Jackie
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24-05-2016, 11:33 AM
Originally Posted by tawneywolf View Post
Well before the availability of genetic testing, I had dobies. ALL FOUR went on to develop this terrible disease, they weren't related. Vet said it was 'one of those things' and there was no test to determine who had it, you just had to wait and see. As it doesn't show itself till around 6-8 years old that meant I had been breeding puppies with the potential to develop DM or The Wobbles as it was known. I never bred my blue girl, she developed it, but at least she never passed it on, in fact I never ever bred another dobie. When walking was no longer possible, they took that sad one way trip to the vet. Once my blue girl, Piaf, went there were no more dobies, as to me the risk was too great. Hence the fact I am red hot on health testing, if the test is available I will do it. I think it's about time the KC made health testing mandatory for all dogs shown or bred from, no tests, no registration for puppies or entry into the ring after a certain age when the relevant test for that breed should have been completed
I agree if you can test for something then you should, but I am a bit confused I thought that you can breed a carrier to a normal , without a risk of producing carriers, I know you can in porties, as you need to have both parents to be carriers to produce effected.

Is it different in your breed for your genetic health issues.
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Lynn
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24-05-2016, 11:35 AM
Hip dysplasia and dm are not connected.
Dogs with good hip scores both parents can still produce pups that may have problems in later life. It isn't always genetic regards hip and elbow dysplasia.
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Jackie
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24-05-2016, 11:37 AM
Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
Hip dysplasia and dm are not connected.
Dogs with good hip scores both parents can still produce pups that may have problems in later life. It isn't always genetic regards hip and elbow dysplasia.
ThTs true, also I am amazed that someone can diagnose HD without an X-ray ....she must have X-ray eyes to be able to tell a pup has HD .
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