Coppinger's research, in keeping with some other work done on feral dogs living near humans, showed that feral village dogs were not out hunting live raw prey, or even significantly scavenging road kill, but mainly lived off whatever they could scavenge at the local tip, much of it cooked, plus some copraphaging, much as many urban foxes and stray dogs tend to do in this country.

As for raw being a natural diet, imo that argument would only hold true if fed a prey model diet.

Personally I feed home cooked and commercially prepared, wet and dry.

In the past I have given fresh raw meaty marrow bones but I stopped as the dogs would vomit up bits of cartilage they had gnawed off, a day or two later.

I would also have concerns about getting the balance right, feeding bones, damage to the whole of the GIT and teeth from hard objections, choking risks and pathogens that are killed by cooking from salmonella, campylbactor, e coli and parasites. People cook food not just for taste, but for safety.

Yes you can wash your hands, and surfaces etc but dogs lick everywhere and are do not have the same hygiene considerations.

There is also the zoonotic risk of dogs who are asymptomatic carriers and can be shedding pathogens in faeces, licking themselves, unknown to the owner, and then licking elsewhere.

I have no problem with my dogs licking me, but I do not feed them raw meat.

Most importantly what I feed my dogs keeps their weight, coats, health and energy at a nice standard with them living long lives so I'm in the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" camp.

Havign said that there are undoubtedly some dogs who do very well on raw, as others do very well on other diets.

I do however agree some advocates of raw are somewhat evangelical and imply others are virtually being cruel and uncaring and are unfit owners to be feeding anything other than raw.

I do find it interesting how sometimes the same people who insist dogs are not wolves when it comes to behaviour none the less still want to feed them "as they would eat in the wild" given that domestic breeds are not living in the wild, and in many cases could not successfully hunt or survive weather challenges in the "wild".

Even e.g. successful hunting lurchers who could feed themselves by hunting would not survive for long in a cold snowy winter if thin skinned and short coated.

I tried Cherry and Parker on raw a couple of years ago and it wasn't a success.

Cherry didn't like it although Parker was happy with it. Cherry would take her chicken wing to her bean-bag and resource-guard it from Parker. If I wasn't there to supervise I am sure there would have been ructions with Cherry going for Parker as the only time she gets aggressive with Parker are if she has very high-value food items.

Cherry also broke one of her canine teeth on the bones.

Perhaps it was her age as she was then 8 so may have been too old to cope with the change?

This is an example of what they are fed now.

I buy either minced lamb (as in photo) or fish and they have this cooked with wholemeal pasta or rice, hard-boiled egg and veggies. Sometimes they have sardines.
I find it easier for me to cope with preparing as like Luthien I am vegetarian, and the dogs really relish their dinners though they are still happy to eat kibble when we go to my Mum's.

It is also the same price as the quality kibble they were on as I get stuff when it's reduced and freeze it. This week I got some half-price lamb, some mackeral and 2 trays of "fish pie" mix which were salmon, pollack and haddock which were reduced from £3 each to £1 each. They had this for their dinner tonight and it did look tasty!

It looks good enough to eat myself Kerryowner.


I think it is an interesting idea to put up a "not raw" thread Azz as it always seemed impolite to me to post anything not positive about raw feeding in the raw threads but this gives an opportunity to explore the other side of the debate.

Yes-I do think some owners put the "guilt-trip" on those who don't or can't feed raw as it's not for everyone and there are other valid options.

One difference between wild canids and domestic dogs eating a BARF type diet is that in a wild population any individuals that could not cope with it, either physically in terms of obstructions, in terms of balance/content or in terms of pathogens, would be removed from the population by natural selection (with no one any the wiser about their demise in most cases), unlike domestic dogs who are not protected by this long-standing natural selection winnowing out.

Associated with this there is also the difference between consideration of the individual and consideration of the species.

It can be to the benefit and improved "fitness" of the species as a whole, or even to the local population of that species, to "remove" any individuals not able to cope with the available diet, but that is little comfort or benefit to the owner of such an individual dog.

There can are also some significant breed differences in terms of immune system competence and digestive capabilities in some dogs which would be less likely to be the case in wild populations were even subspecies are likely to be fulfilling a similar environmental niche to each other, including food supply, and where all individuals need to be able to survive within their environment relatively unaided.

For the sake of balance, there are of course also dogs without these problems who manage fine on raw diets. However that is a different matter as to whether they need raw, should the owners prefer to feed otherwise.

In terms of guilt trips and pressure I noticed a thread recently that reported a breeder advertising as not being prepared to re-home puppies unless (truthfully or otherwise) the new owners promised to feed raw.

For anyone who is interested, there was a recent article in the "Canadian Veterinary Journal"by Schlesinger and Joffe titled "Raw Food Diets in Companion Animals: a Critical Review".

The full article can be found here :

Raw Food Diets in Companion Animals: a Critical Review

But their conclusions were that there is a lack of any strong scientifically-based evidence from controlled studies to evaluate risks or benefits of raw meat diets in pets.

They do say however that vets should feel obligated to discuss the risks implicated in using a raw meat-based food for their pet as there is some compelling evidence suggesting that raw food diets may be at risk of being unbalanced and that they pose a substantial risk of infectious disease to the pet, the pet’s environment, and the humans in the household.

Interesting post Tass.

From our own perspective a raw diet didnt work however we do still give our boy some raw during the week however its in addition to his conventional soaked kibble (part of i should say) - this diet does suit him, mainly chicken bone of some description

This is what they have had last night for their meal. It is Sainsbury's "Fish Pie Mix" and is salmon, cod and pollack. I got a couple of packs reduced from £3 each to £1.02 each. Jamie was a bit jealous cos he thought he should have them!

I got some packs of quarter price lamb last night which was reduced to £1.14 a pack instead of £4.56.

If you feed the dogs like this, how do you feed guests - can i come stay ????

It looks pretty tasty doesn't it ?

I think we should volunteer Kerryowner for Come Dine with Me