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SLB
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21-11-2010, 09:15 PM

Alright for agility?

Louie is a lab cross springer and his focus outside is lacking - I've tried everything. So in a last attempt to make training fun I thought I'd try him at Agility - now he is only 6 months and when he is a year old I will be vet checking his hips to see if he is alright to take classes as I didnt know his dad's hip scores so dont want him to take part if they arent brilliant. But if they are - will he be too big and bulky for it.

He is the size of a lab with all the energy of a springer - and the quick agile moves (although his size weighs against him) so will he be suited or am I better off trying him in something else.

I've tried making training fun with treats, food, toys, squeaky voices - he knows "Look" but is very ignorant in the outside world - except the driveway where I train him as it's sometimes very distracting and it works well in my favour and he has been doing very well in focus there but when we go any further the ignorance kicks in

So agility? Even if it is just for fun?
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wallaroo
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21-11-2010, 10:35 PM
I do agility with Toby just for fun, not for competitions. There are lots of different types of dogs there, including two labradors.

If he is only 6 months though its a bit early to start. What about gundog training? I think you can start that young
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SLB
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21-11-2010, 10:56 PM
We tried it with him and he hated the guns and his retrieval is good but his focus is atrocious when he's not doing controlled training with me.

I was going to wait til he was a year old - I think I said it up there? Going to get his hips checked first. I wanted to get him to do water retrieval but it's too cold for him at the moment and I know springers and labs can have problems with ear infections so I dont want to let him swim in cold water just yet and as I dont own a car it's not as if he'd get to warm up on the ride home.

And can I say your Toby looks incredibly like Louie did as a younger pup
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wallaroo
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22-11-2010, 08:10 AM
Alot of people thought he was a labrador when he was little. He's got the springer ears now though!

I was just thinking of something he could do until he was old enough for agility. Not sure what else there is at that age? Tracking maybe?
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Collie Convert
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22-11-2010, 09:18 AM
Remember, at 6 months old he is still very young and will only have the concentration for short bursts.
My collie lad is 7 months now and he has good work ethic and drive already, but i still dont train him for longer than 5/10 minutes at a time- that way every training session is fun and rewarding and he is always left wanting to do more.

You say you have used treats etc..have you tried really high value treats like garlic sausage/liver cake?
Being part spaniel you are always going to have work harder at keeping his attention than some of the easier breeds to train.

Agility is great fun and most dogs do enjoy it, but i would say its not something to be done purely because you cant keep his attention doing other things- you still need the basic obedience and attention there.

I know various people who run both labs and springers in agility, and i run my gsd so he really isnt too big.
Also regarding his hips- i cant see it necessary to have his hips scored (the only true way of knowing how good/bad they are) if he is fit and healthy and you are not concerned about them then just go ahead and start training.

Also, i wouldnt advise starting agility training until he is 12 months.
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SLB
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22-11-2010, 09:21 AM
Originally Posted by wallaroo View Post
Alot of people thought he was a labrador when he was little. He's got the springer ears now though!

I was just thinking of something he could do until he was old enough for agility. Not sure what else there is at that age? Tracking maybe?
Lol Louie used to have Springer ears - they're now slightly long Lab ears and I get "Oh it's unusal to have a lab with a white flash down it's front isnt it?" - well no but he is a springer cross

I've tried a little bit of tracking with him - well sort of, I've got my sister to put her scent on a hankiechief like they do at crufts and then put the rest down with no scent at all (my dad wasnt happy - his new, out of the packet ones hehee) and he just rolled in them all and ran off with the wrong one - idiot lol. I've hid cheese around the room for him to find and for the cross he is - his nose is shocking!

I suppose I could take the rabbit out in the carrier and hide him in a field and see if he works out where he is - he loves the rabbits - of course I'd need to find a high enough field for Louie not to spot the carrier and one where I could. We tried that sort of thing with my OH hiding - he wasnt interested at all

Ugh maybe he was just born to give me a headache! I'll find something, thanks for the help
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SLB
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22-11-2010, 09:47 AM
Originally Posted by Collie Convert View Post
Remember, at 6 months old he is still very young and will only have the concentration for short bursts.
My collie lad is 7 months now and he has good work ethic and drive already, but i still dont train him for longer than 5/10 minutes at a time- that way every training session is fun and rewarding and he is always left wanting to do more.

You say you have used treats etc..have you tried really high value treats like garlic sausage/liver cake?
Being part spaniel you are always going to have work harder at keeping his attention than some of the easier breeds to train.

Agility is great fun and most dogs do enjoy it, but i would say its not something to be done purely because you cant keep his attention doing other things- you still need the basic obedience and attention there.

I know various people who run both labs and springers in agility, and i run my gsd so he really isnt too big.
Also regarding his hips- i cant see it necessary to have his hips scored (the only true way of knowing how good/bad they are) if he is fit and healthy and you are not concerned about them then just go ahead and start training.

Also, i wouldnt advise starting agility training until he is 12 months.
At the moment he has training 10 minutes twice a day - spaced out, he gets one walk with the bigger dogs - to socialise and one on his own as like an extended training session on lead - it's never for long though, I'm not an extremely patient person so I get easily frusrtrated so I dont take him out on heel work for more than 20 minutes.

He has made better progress, I dont need along line anymore - even when he bolts round a corner - I whistle and stand still and he comes running - so we're getting there.

You have one of the easiest dogs IMO to train though

I've tried hotdogs, I've tried chicken, I've tried cheese - nada, zilch, nothing - his focus is rubbish, but this is only when we're out on a walk - he gets pedigree schmackos broken up and rodeo twizel sticks broken up into smaller pieces as rewards when we're in the drive, so he only gets the higher rewards when out and he takes no notice - I've tried squeaky toys, rope toys, balls - most toys and he wont heel for longer than 5 minutes with them - or focus for that matter.

I've trained a Springer before and he was stubborn but quick to learn. He was brill, and I know not every dogs the same - but I was kind of hoping Louie had more lab in him - they're easier to train

I thought Agility would be a great way for me to train him and he'd have to focus on me the whole time - his stay is almost perfect so I know he'd be alright on the block they have to lay on. But I wouldnt be starting him off on it til he was a year old anyway.

He has his basics down to a T - in fact he'll now do them without a treat. The only problem I have with him is focus - but I'm still working on it - slaving is the more appropriate word and I do make training fun - sometimes I'll switch a treat to a toy , a toy to a treat. Sometimes I'll bring my BC x in and he competes alongside her to get things right - nothing wrong with that, a bit of competition is healthy
And he's brilliant.

I dont know his dad's hipscores so if they were bad then I dont want to compete him in anything too bad for his hips.

Thanks for the help
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Kicks
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22-11-2010, 10:34 AM
Labs and Springers are both perfecty capable of doing agility and love doing it.

Just to reply to the bit about scent training you need to teach him what he's doing before putting a full scent out for him. You can start using just one cloth and playing normal retreive games with it, so it becomes 'his' cloth and will smell strongly of him. Then you can start laying out a couple of other cloths and throwing his own into them (not all together but a couple of feet apart), then move to placing it in a scent pattern. Once he reliably finds 'his' cloth you start phasing it out so he gets say a new cloth but only gets one or two fetches before its put with the others. It takes quite a while to teach and build up gradually and in competition the dog is asked to find your scent first its not until the higher classes that they're asked to find someone elses scent like your sisters. Hope that helps, it is worth doing as it is a fun thing to do once they've learnt it.

I would tend to agree with collie convert re the hipscores, if he has no stiffness or problems then you shouldn't have any problems going ahead. One of my Labs had mild HD and still did agility as the muscle tone that he built up gave extra support to his hips and he stayed fit and active for much longer than his litter brother with the same condition who was not allowed to jump or go for long runs.

Hope that helps.

Hazel x
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SLB
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22-11-2010, 10:56 AM
Originally Posted by Kicks View Post
Labs and Springers are both perfecty capable of doing agility and love doing it.

Just to reply to the bit about scent training you need to teach him what he's doing before putting a full scent out for him. You can start using just one cloth and playing normal retreive games with it, so it becomes 'his' cloth and will smell strongly of him. Then you can start laying out a couple of other cloths and throwing his own into them (not all together but a couple of feet apart), then move to placing it in a scent pattern. Once he reliably finds 'his' cloth you start phasing it out so he gets say a new cloth but only gets one or two fetches before its put with the others. It takes quite a while to teach and build up gradually and in competition the dog is asked to find your scent first its not until the higher classes that they're asked to find someone elses scent like your sisters. Hope that helps, it is worth doing as it is a fun thing to do once they've learnt it.

I would tend to agree with collie convert re the hipscores, if he has no stiffness or problems then you shouldn't have any problems going ahead. One of my Labs had mild HD and still did agility as the muscle tone that he built up gave extra support to his hips and he stayed fit and active for much longer than his litter brother with the same condition who was not allowed to jump or go for long runs.

Hope that helps.

Hazel x
That helps so much, thanks - it's strange, Sadie picked it up straight away without any teaching - then again she is collie cross lol, I guess I thought with him being springer cross his intelligence would be there - guess not lol.

He doesnt have any stiffness in his back end, we're having more problems with his front carriage (I'll post about it in health thread)

Thanks for the help everyone
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Collie Convert
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22-11-2010, 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by SLB View Post
At the moment he has training 10 minutes twice a day - spaced out, he gets one walk with the bigger dogs - to socialise and one on his own as like an extended training session on lead - it's never for long though, I'm not an extremely patient person so I get easily frusrtrated so I dont take him out on heel work for more than 20 minutes.

He has made better progress, I dont need along line anymore - even when he bolts round a corner - I whistle and stand still and he comes running - so we're getting there.

You have one of the easiest dogs IMO to train though

I've tried hotdogs, I've tried chicken, I've tried cheese - nada, zilch, nothing - his focus is rubbish, but this is only when we're out on a walk - he gets pedigree schmackos broken up and rodeo twizel sticks broken up into smaller pieces as rewards when we're in the drive, so he only gets the higher rewards when out and he takes no notice - I've tried squeaky toys, rope toys, balls - most toys and he wont heel for longer than 5 minutes with them - or focus for that matter.

I've trained a Springer before and he was stubborn but quick to learn. He was brill, and I know not every dogs the same - but I was kind of hoping Louie had more lab in him - they're easier to train

I thought Agility would be a great way for me to train him and he'd have to focus on me the whole time - his stay is almost perfect so I know he'd be alright on the block they have to lay on. But I wouldnt be starting him off on it til he was a year old anyway.

He has his basics down to a T - in fact he'll now do them without a treat. The only problem I have with him is focus - but I'm still working on it - slaving is the more appropriate word and I do make training fun - sometimes I'll switch a treat to a toy , a toy to a treat. Sometimes I'll bring my BC x in and he competes alongside her to get things right - nothing wrong with that, a bit of competition is healthy
And he's brilliant.

I dont know his dad's hipscores so if they were bad then I dont want to compete him in anything too bad for his hips.

Thanks for the help
Ahh ok, sounds like you're doing all the right things...my friends that have springers all have to work really hard to keep their noses off the ground- but they all got there in the end

Just a note about the bit in bold- The reason I said about my youngsters drive was to highlight the fact even though i have one of the easiest breeds to train, known for their concentration- i still dont work him too long...though very tempting to do so!!
good luck with your lad
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