register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Emma
Dogsey Veteran
Emma is offline  
Location: Australia
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
Female 
 
26-06-2010, 05:23 AM

Breeding dogs

After reading a fair few posts where people have asked for advice on what to do to start breeding or that they want to, they seem to get shot down in flames, and various reasons given for why they shouldn't. It is a tad hypocritical IMO as some that advise against it are breeders, and surely you were young, had to have a first litter, may not have known everything that breeding involved or all the risks it has.

So why can't those people start trying to breed, how do you do it if you are suppose to only do it with a lot of experience in breeding , as it takes starting to breed to learn, there is only so much a book and research and owning dogs can teach you, and then some action is going to be taken at some point to start breeding
Reply With Quote
scorpio
Dogsey Veteran
scorpio is offline  
Location: Old Leake, UK
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 12,080
Female 
 
26-06-2010, 06:32 AM
Hi Emma

This is a good question...I remember when I first wanted to breed and I had so called friends, who had bred litters for many years, trying to talk me out of it..."oh you don't want to do that, just buy something in" etc. That used to really bug me as they had done what they wanted to do yet were trying to talk me out of it!

On the thread I replied to last night, and others I have responded to, I just try to get my point across about health checks and making sure what they are breeding from is the best they have, before embarking on it, after all, in my opinion, you breed to better the breed and to keep something yourself...no point in doing it otherwise. The other major thing is to ensure you have homes lined up before the mating takes place, people can always let you down but, so long as you have good, vetted homes and more homes than you are likely to have pups then it can be very rewarding to see the new owners thrilled to bits with these pups joining their families...I get a real buzz out of receiving photos and hearing what they have been getting up to.

So, in my mind, breeding is very rewarding, (again, I reiterate I am not talking about financial rewards), so long as you research your chosen breed and are aware of the problems that can be encountered along the way, i.e. possibly lose the bitch, the pups or both. Then there are the sleepless nights once the pups are here, the possibility, as in my case, of losing pups that you have lovingly reared to about 10 days old...that is devastating, so there are many tears as well as smiles when breeding.

I am so pleased I bred my litters, and thrilled with the resulting pups, but I am not in any hurry to do it all again
Reply With Quote
astle9
Dogsey Senior
astle9 is offline  
Location: Stourbridge West Midlands UK
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 832
Male 
 
26-06-2010, 06:34 AM
everyone is a beginner at some point, i think most on here are genuine people with the best interests of dogs at heart, if you have a vet on hand with the finance to back up any incidents that may occur, if you have your dog tested for the inherent diseases of the breed, if you do not treat your dog as a cash machine and breed infrequently, try to mate the dog from a wider gene pool, i think if you can do those things then i see no reason why you cannot breed in a sensible way in a caring environment, yes there are rescue dogs that need homes but for some people specific breeds with papers are the way they wish to go so there is a need for them.
Breed by all means but take full responsibility, sell to people you feel right with and not just anyone, there may be some people on here who may have a vested interest in keeping breeders numbers low but they are very few, this is a good forum and the majority of advice is spot on.
Reply With Quote
Emma
Dogsey Veteran
Emma is offline  
Location: Australia
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
Female 
 
26-06-2010, 06:50 AM
Originally Posted by scorpio View Post
Hi Emma

This is a good question...I remember when I first wanted to breed and I had so called friends, who had bred litters for many years, trying to talk me out of it..."oh you don't want to do that, just buy something in" etc. That used to really bug me as they had done what they wanted to do yet were trying to talk me out of it!

On the thread I replied to last night, and others I have responded to, I just try to get my point across about health checks and making sure what they are breeding from is the best they have, before embarking on it, after all, in my opinion, you breed to better the breed and to keep something yourself...no point in doing it otherwise. The other major thing is to ensure you have homes lined up before the mating takes place, people can always let you down but, so long as you have good, vetted homes and more homes than you are likely to have pups then it can be very rewarding to see the new owners thrilled to bits with these pups joining their families...I get a real buzz out of receiving photos and hearing what they have been getting up to.

So, in my mind, breeding is very rewarding, (again, I reiterate I am not talking about financial rewards), so long as you research your chosen breed and are aware of the problems that can be encountered along the way, i.e. possibly lose the bitch, the pups or both. Then there are the sleepless nights once the pups are here, the possibility, as in my case, of losing pups that you have lovingly reared to about 10 days old...that is devastating, so there are many tears as well as smiles when breeding.

I am so pleased I bred my litters, and thrilled with the resulting pups, but I am not in any hurry to do it all again
I haven't seen your post from last night, nor did I know you had bred it just seems some people are saying it is not okay to breed unless you know what you are doing, it is a bit like getting a job only if you have experience..........but how do you get experience unless you get to do the practical side of it, theory can only teach you so much.
Reply With Quote
Emma
Dogsey Veteran
Emma is offline  
Location: Australia
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
Female 
 
26-06-2010, 06:56 AM
Originally Posted by astle9 View Post
everyone is a beginner at some point, i think most on here are genuine people with the best interests of dogs at heart, if you have a vet on hand with the finance to back up any incidents that may occur, if you have your dog tested for the inherent diseases of the breed, if you do not treat your dog as a cash machine and breed infrequently, try to mate the dog from a wider gene pool, i think if you can do those things then i see no reason why you cannot breed in a sensible way in a caring environment, yes there are rescue dogs that need homes but for some people specific breeds with papers are the way they wish to go so there is a need for them.
Breed by all means but take full responsibility, sell to people you feel right with and not just anyone, there may be some people on here who may have a vested interest in keeping breeders numbers low but they are very few, this is a good forum and the majority of advice is spot on.
Just reading some threads where people ask a question about it, this is the answer that may help them, yet a lot of replies do nothing except say 'don't breed' and this is by people who do breed.
My OH wants to breed his dog, but whether that happens or not remains to be seen, I am not for it for so many reasons, yet see why he wants to. It is not for me to decide but I will have my say.
Reply With Quote
leadstaffs
Dogsey Veteran
leadstaffs is offline  
Location: Liverpool
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,181
Female 
 
26-06-2010, 07:29 AM
I breed and if anyone asks me about breeding first of is your dog a good example has it had all of the required health tests.

Then go to your breeder, they should be your first port of call for help. Hopefully they will know the history of the breed and the line or family history of your particular bitch.

Breeding an be very rewarding and also heart breaking and financialy very draining.
Reply With Quote
scorpio
Dogsey Veteran
scorpio is offline  
Location: Old Leake, UK
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 12,080
Female 
 
26-06-2010, 07:31 AM
Originally Posted by Emma View Post
I haven't seen your post from last night, nor did I know you had bred it just seems some people are saying it is not okay to breed unless you know what you are doing, it is a bit like getting a job only if you have experience..........but how do you get experience unless you get to do the practical side of it, theory can only teach you so much.
I get what you're saying...when I had my first litter I knew what to do with the mating as I had helped many times when people couldn't get their dogs to tie...I seem to have the knack But, when I planned to have my first litter I had 3 friends on stand by, all of whom had bred, that would be there with me. I had seen litters being born but when it is your own girl that is giving birth it makes it more real and more scary, if you know what I mean. There is nothing like first hand experience and, as you say, unless you try it, you cannot possible learn.

My second litter was a c-section so I had no involvement in that, although I had the same friends on stand by again. My third litter was out of my hands really, my friend gave me the bitch on breeding terms and, against my wishes, wanted a litter out of her before she was rehomed due to my illness. The litter was registered in my name under my affix as the bitch was in my name, but I had nothing to do with the whelping, I saw the pups once but it was too much for me, I desperately wanted one and knew I couldn't Mind you, the owners of those pups also had to sign a contract to say they would be returned to me if they couldn't keep them, even though I was ill I had made arrangements for people to help if that happened. Once I had recovered I contacted the owners of the pups to let them know I was available again if they needed me. The owners of the pups I had previously bred were all in contact with me anyway so they knew what was going on.

So, I have nothing against people breeding, we all have to start somewhere, I just hope that when it comes to it, they use only health tested dogs that they have a background knowledge of, have good, vetted homes lined up and are willing to take the pups back at any time in their lives in need...and not just to jump on the designer bandwagon to breed anything to anything and give it a posh name to make a fast buck with no thoughts of the parents or pups welfare
Reply With Quote
Emma
Dogsey Veteran
Emma is offline  
Location: Australia
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
Female 
 
26-06-2010, 07:51 AM
Originally Posted by scorpio View Post
I get what you're saying...when I had my first litter I knew what to do with the mating as I had helped many times when people couldn't get their dogs to tie...I seem to have the knack But, when I planned to have my first litter I had 3 friends on stand by, all of whom had bred, that would be there with me. I had seen litters being born but when it is your own girl that is giving birth it makes it more real and more scary, if you know what I mean. There is nothing like first hand experience and, as you say, unless you try it, you cannot possible learn.

My second litter was a c-section so I had no involvement in that, although I had the same friends on stand by again. My third litter was out of my hands really, my friend gave me the bitch on breeding terms and, against my wishes, wanted a litter out of her before she was rehomed due to my illness. The litter was registered in my name under my affix as the bitch was in my name, but I had nothing to do with the whelping, I saw the pups once but it was too much for me, I desperately wanted one and knew I couldn't Mind you, the owners of those pups also had to sign a contract to say they would be returned to me if they couldn't keep them, even though I was ill I had made arrangements for people to help if that happened. Once I had recovered I contacted the owners of the pups to let them know I was available again if they needed me. The owners of the pups I had previously bred were all in contact with me anyway so they knew what was going on.

So, I have nothing against people breeding, we all have to start somewhere, I just hope that when it comes to it, they use only health tested dogs that they have a background knowledge of, have good, vetted homes lined up and are willing to take the pups back at any time in their lives in need...and not just to jump on the designer bandwagon to breed anything to anything and give it a posh name to make a fast buck with no thoughts of the parents or pups welfare
I would be terrified if it were my dog having a litter (mind you would make millions as they are boys and haven't got the goods to make them either )
I helped our neighbour when they got their bitch in pup and when she was having them, they are 'they need a litter to settle them down' (oh and they have another female and have the same attitude with her )and no amount of talking will make them think otherwise (brick walls hurt less). The bitch got milk fever and almost died twice (then got mastitis), the pups were a week and a half old, the neighbour got sick and had to go to hospital, I kept watch and hubby didn't do so well on the feeding regime so I said I would take them. So every 4hrs I was up feeding, helping them toilet (try explaining that one ) had heat pad for them, weighed them every second day, handed them back from time to time so I could have a rest. They complained about the expense of the formula, I ignored them and got them to get more. It was a haul but really besides the sleep deprivation I loved doing it and said goodbye to all 4 Yet I have never bred!
Also helped with Jed's mum when she had a litter, something less than wonderful and quite sad at times, not something I would ever understand for a person who was a pioneer in the breed to allow to happen.
Don't fancy the designer breeds, but Jed is essentially that, an established breed for twenty years, but only trying to standardise the type now.
Reply With Quote
Tassle
Dogsey Veteran
Tassle is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
Female 
 
26-06-2010, 07:59 AM
Originally Posted by Emma View Post
After reading a fair few posts where people have asked for advice on what to do to start breeding or that they want to, they seem to get shot down in flames, and various reasons given for why they shouldn't. It is a tad hypocritical IMO as some that advise against it are breeders, and surely you were young, had to have a first litter, may not have known everything that breeding involved or all the risks it has.

So why can't those people start trying to breed, how do you do it if you are suppose to only do it with a lot of experience in breeding , as it takes starting to breed to learn, there is only so much a book and research and owning dogs can teach you, and then some action is going to be taken at some point to start breeding
Funnily enough - the only people who 'shot me down' were people on here.

Everyone who knows my bitch, her temperament, lines, health and working ability thought I was doing exactly the right thing.

I went to her breeder initially - I have consulted her at every step and had her opinion and input at every stage.
I have owned the breed since I started owning a dog (which would be 20 years!) and have lived with Borders who are like chalk and cheese. I have seen enough of them to know how great my girl is on the working front (mainly sport work - the sheep work is in progress - but her instinct is strong - which of course is what you are breeding for in BCs).

I would only condemn people if they were rushing into breeding without looking at relevant tests or without knowing the breed inside out, people who are looking to make money or want a mini replica of the current dog. I get people who want a litter because they think it will be good for their kids to have the experience... or because (that old wives tale again) it will mature the bitch or stop Phantoms....these are people who I try to explain that it is not the most sensible thing - but it has to be done carefully otherwise you just alienate people and they will ignore you.

You are much more likely to change people minds by explaining politely.
Reply With Quote
Emma
Dogsey Veteran
Emma is offline  
Location: Australia
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
Female 
 
26-06-2010, 09:38 AM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
Funnily enough - the only people who 'shot me down' were people on here.

Everyone who knows my bitch, her temperament, lines, health and working ability thought I was doing exactly the right thing.

I went to her breeder initially - I have consulted her at every step and had her opinion and input at every stage.
I have owned the breed since I started owning a dog (which would be 20 years!) and have lived with Borders who are like chalk and cheese. I have seen enough of them to know how great my girl is on the working front (mainly sport work - the sheep work is in progress - but her instinct is strong - which of course is what you are breeding for in BCs).

I would only condemn people if they were rushing into breeding without looking at relevant tests or without knowing the breed inside out, people who are looking to make money or want a mini replica of the current dog. I get people who want a litter because they think it will be good for their kids to have the experience... or because (that old wives tale again) it will mature the bitch or stop Phantoms....these are people who I try to explain that it is not the most sensible thing - but it has to be done carefully otherwise you just alienate people and they will ignore you.

You are much more likely to change people minds by explaining politely.
I see what you are saying, as people ask a question about breeding and more often than not there is an outcry of 'don't breed', but what if these ones that are getting told 'don't breed' but are being everything a breeder could be starting out, and thinking a knowledge base like Dogsey could give them support or advisement but instead it is a no, without explanation or explaining all the things that can go wrong (maybe they are aware of these already) and wanted to know something else, but I know if it was me I would be outta here and not bother asking any more questions. I would get it if they were for the wrong reasons, yet we never find out as they never come back.
Just a thought, if someone is thinking of breeding should they have no questions that need answering or want to ask a question to make sure they have tried to makes sure they are not missing something.
I am sorry to hear you got shot down, as I couldn't say it better than you did You are much more likely to change people minds by explaining politely or finding out they are being responsible. But glad you didn't stay away from here
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 4 11 > Last »


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools


© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top