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landseer
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Location: Canada
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27-08-2016, 03:48 PM
Folks, train the way you wish, it's your dog... I've never had to use an actual treat for my dogs.

Treats, crates, toys - these are all things that human needs. What does your dog need? It's your choice, again, your dog.

I just put a higher value on my dogs' trust/respect/loyalty than a piece of hotdog.
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Swifty
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Location: El Paso, Texas
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27-08-2016, 04:03 PM
I agree, dogs do not need crates, humans do................
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Chris
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27-08-2016, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
Actually you are right to a point. With my current pup I used bologna to train my dog to sit. This process took under 60 seconds. I pushed his behind down as I said sit, then gave him the bologna with praise. Then once he stood I held another piece of meat out and said sit as I raised the bologna. He sat, the next time all I had to do was say sit and tickle him. So I did use food twice in one training session when he was 9 weeks old. It has never been needed again.

Now my female will refuse anything when in the field, I took beef and liver. All she wants to do is trail a living liver she will and had actually refused all food for training purposes in the field.

Should I change something? I think not.
Why did you push your dog's behind down as you said sit? There really was no need if you were using the lure correctly. I'm surprised that having seen how quickly your young pup got the idea of what was required with the sit that you didn't carry on the method to train other commands too, but, hey ho, each to their own.
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Lynn
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27-08-2016, 05:17 PM
Not good for hips pushing a dog's behind down to make it sit especially large breeds.
Sounds as if swifty and Landseer are one of the same or very good friends.
I think some of these newbies need to learn some manners and stop thinking their way is right and just argue the point continuously.
On that note I will not feed the trolls anymore but like we use to have in the past with these troll problems have put the soup on for those that wish to continue.
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landseer
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27-08-2016, 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Why did you push your dog's behind down as you said sit? There really was no need if you were using the lure correctly. I'm surprised that having seen how quickly your young pup got the idea of what was required with the sit that you didn't carry on the method to train other commands too, but, hey ho, each to their own.
Here's the thing. People seem to think that the dog knows what "sit" means - dogs don't speak human. Dogs take the sound of "sit" coming out of your mouth and eventually associate it with the action of sitting. Always use the same tone and pitch of voice, and use the tone/pitch that you would use out in the field to command the dog - and dogs will get it quickly.

When I train a puppy to sit, there's no lure, there's no excitement generated - puppy is calm. It may take 5 or ten minutes, but when I'm kneeled down with a puppy in front of me - at some point the puppy is going to sit down anyway. It's a default behavior - and it's repeatedly hearing sit in the same pitch and tone. When the dog sits, bit of praise - repeat. The dog just learned to associate a sound coming out of my mouth with a default action it's going to do anyway.

People try to train their dog like the dog actually understands english. I've seen people use baby talk to get a dog to sit and down - only to find out they don't listen when outside and the owner is giving a sharper command.
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CaroleC
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27-08-2016, 05:54 PM
Landseer, why have you started to answer for Swiftie? I'm sure you couldn't have witnessed what she was up to in El Paso, when you are in Canada. Of course, NickyAnn could always have passed this information on to you.
Silly girl.
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landseer
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27-08-2016, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by CaroleC View Post
Landseer, why have you started to answer for Swiftie? I'm sure you couldn't have witnessed what she was up to in El Paso, when you are in Canada. Of course, NickyAnn could always have passed this information on to you.
Silly girl.
How do you feel that I'm answering for the OP? I agree with the OP, and am reinforcing in different ways... Secondly, I'm not a girl, thank you...


Positive reinforcement has turned into a monster - shower your dog with treats seems to be the default now. Is that what you classify as positive reinforcement? Affection for a job well done is reinforcement.
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Chris
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27-08-2016, 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by landseer View Post
When I train a puppy to sit, there's no lure, there's no excitement generated - puppy is calm. It may take 5 or ten minutes, but when I'm kneeled down with a puppy in front of me - at some point the puppy is going to sit down anyway. It's a default behavior - and it's repeatedly hearing sit in the same pitch and tone. When the dog sits, bit of praise - repeat. The dog just learned to associate a sound coming out of my mouth with a default action it's going to do anyway.
and with a lure - 5 seconds max.


People try to train their dog like the dog actually understands english. I've seen people use baby talk to get a dog to sit and down - only to find out they don't listen when outside and the owner is giving a sharper command.
Dogs do get the gist of the command words we use. Train in a whisper and the dog will comply if they've been taught the command. Shout that word in an emergency once they've been trained it and they not only understand the word, they respond to that urgency.

The key to good training is a good foundation.
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landseer
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27-08-2016, 07:19 PM
I can't wrap my head around the idea of having to use a lure to get a dog to do something it's going to do anyway...? A dog is going to go from standing to sit - why not reinforce the action of sitting when it's associated with the sound of my voice? Why do I need to lure the dog to sit?

Basic commands of sit, down (basically prone position), lay (on their side) etc - whatever terms you want to use are things that the dog does anyway. Dogs will go from stand, to sit to down to lay down, just capitalize on it. They learn so much faster.


i've seen people try to teach the dog their own name - kneeling in front of the dog "My name is Shirley", like the dog is going to understand that. As the dog tunes into it's owner - it's family, of course it's going to pick up on words with different pitches, different urgencies etc. They learn what the sound of walk means, they learn what the sound of park means - they build a vocabulary over time. I can't expect a 10 week old puppy to learn a basic command of sit when the owner is using everything from baby babble to frustrated with the distraction of a treat to go with it.
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Trouble
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27-08-2016, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
I am not telling you that you are wrong, I am telling you that your dogs do not do anything for you. All your dogs care about is the food, and this is the problem.
Really well as I don't use food explain yourself sherlock.
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