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fluffybunnyfeet
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27-03-2008, 08:08 PM
So it wasn't just me who saw it that way, Patch.

Seems the rule changes have had a detrimental effect and competing in any competitive sport is wrong if any animal is pushed too hard, training such young dogs before they are properly developed is completely irresponsible and in the case of a Collie would likely cause some serious problems later in life. The Owner/trainer needs a good shoeing imo.

Its not about winning, but its nice to be on a level playing field and competing at a comfortable level which your chosen breed of dog can occassionally come good, but at the moment its like your local village football team playing Manchester United (spit).

The OH puts a lot of time in for our dog, and also is a trainer at the local club which is a weekly commitment. There were some members at the recent competition, all have very good dogs (mostly Collies) but I don't think even one of them were placed at all. The same names seemed to crop up several times in the results with the exception of the lower grades which they were not competing in.

Winning is not important to us, and its certainly not sour grapes as using a dobe for agility you cannot expect to be placed highly very often. Its about the taking part and the sense of acheivement when you get a result, but now it seems there is no chance.

One event I did see at the North Cornwall show which made me want to poke the owner in the eye with a stick, was on the take your own line competition. Again super fast young collies, but the desire to win proved too big a carrot for the new breed of dumb win hungry handlers.
It was raining and slippery but they chose a line that the dog had to jump across several jumps at a very acute angle, almost lengthways along the pole. Predictably the inevitable happened and one dog took a very nasty tumble and I noticed was limping afterwards.
This type of behaviour is unexceptable, putting an animal at risk whether a Collie or a pink dancing agility Elephant in the pursuit of being first is wrong.

It just seems that there is a handful of people hellbent on winning and taking over the sport, and seeing the age of the dogs (Collies)competing they must have been trained very early and intensively. Is this what its come down too?
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fluffybunnyfeet
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27-03-2008, 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by Missysmum View Post
, I plan to get a mobility scooter , and will need to re-train my dog to work alongside it. All going well , I'll get back into agility. .
You probably already know about it but in case you don't

http://www.agilitynet.com/news/disab...ersleague.html
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mishflynn
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27-03-2008, 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
Sadly its true though, there are some like that

I recently watched a video of a 5 month old collie already training to what I consider an obsessive level, and a ten week old pup already weaving - I found those vids to be very sad reflections on their owners.

A few years ago I did have two handlers come to the club I used to be with who were put in one of my classes but after the first session I refused to train them - their attitude was dire toward their dogs, their was no joy in the dogs` eyes, they were doing what they were being made to do imo. The dogs were good, yes, but there was no happiness about it for those dogs and the handlers refused point blank to improve their attitudes - they would`nt even praise the dogs for doing things well, as far as they were concerned the dogs `owed` it to them for getting fed and being provided with somewhere to sleep.
When I told the other trainer I was not prepared to work with them because they had made their dogs into robots he said he would work with them - I think that lasted a couple of weeks.

People like that are the teeniest minority but they do exist

Idiots like this are in all sports, i just dont like the "oh they have a collie they must be a pot Hunter" attitude that the OP came on here with.

I know a LOAD of agility people, some of which will be competing against the OP because i come from Somerset & know loads of West peeps, all with Collies who train well & think the sun shines out their dogs backsides, i dont want THEM slagged off because her dog is too slow to be competitve! if your dog is too slow & you enjoy agility then JUST enjoy it together, since when has agility been about winning????? My friends are thrilled to bits with a 20th place rossey or a clear round rossey!!!!!

Perhaps working trials would be a better option when its not about winning but Qualification marks.

Personally im VERY competitve in my chosen sport, but not to the detriment of my dogs, competion is not a bad thing in sport, but unrealistic goals can be. At the end of the day dogs are dogs & we all dogs & people can make mistakes, our dogs, (yes even collies) are PETS first & fore most arent they.

Back to agility if people ARE putting too much on their dogs too young (& in Agility with the stresses on young frames this is very important) then those dogs arent going to do very well or last very long.
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Missysmum
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27-03-2008, 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by fluffybunnyfeet View Post
You probably already know about it but in case you don't

http://www.agilitynet.com/news/disab...ersleague.html
Thanks . I have seen this before but I get the impression the events are held in England. I'm in Scotland and wouldn't be able to drive that far to a show. I'm happy to compete with everyone else , it's just going to take a lot more training to be able to do it. . The most important thing is having fun with my dog and meeting people with similar interests.
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mishflynn
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27-03-2008, 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by Missysmum View Post
Unfortunately , I had to give up agility training as I have developed osteoarthritis of my spine ! I also have a slipped disc at the moment so there's not really much I can do. Soon however , I plan to get a mobility scooter , and will need to re-train my dog to work alongside it. .
Ive seen a lady run a collie from her scooter, it was amazing, it was a ???? show at taunton/conquest centre, indoors, lady rode her scooter into the ring, stood up centrally & "ran" her dog over the whole course from where she stood,(cant have walked more than 2 paces in any direction) it was B****y amazing, prper handling amazing training & great team work, & she won i was in tears!!!! i dont go to many agility shows i find some of the handling so awful & cack handed (as i do at obedience shows too mind!) , i was in shock as it was a ????show (non KC) they allowed training rounds, & some of these training rounds were SOOOOO dire, then i saw this lady handling it was AMAZING!!!!!!
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fluffybunnyfeet
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27-03-2008, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by mishflynn View Post
Idiots like this are in all sports, i just dont like the "oh they have a collie they must be a pot Hunter" attitude that the OP came on here with.

.
Really? I said that? You seem to be full of assumptions and conclusions.

It goes without saying that if you want to win get a Collie, but nowhere in my posts did I infer that owning a Collie and competing in agility means you are a 'pot hunter'. There are those that do own Collies and are pot hunters, but the vast majority compete for the sports sake and the sense of acheivement.
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mishflynn
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27-03-2008, 08:59 PM
what about the fabulous Kelpies that are running? arent they fast enough? or BSDs?

Maybe the people that are winning just have faster & better trained dogs than you?

just enjoy your sport ? enjoy your dogs for what they can achieve ?

You may not have said those words but its the "implication" of your posts, thatys how they come across to be . I could be off course & wrong.

If you want to win, train harder!!!!!
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fluffybunnyfeet
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27-03-2008, 09:11 PM
Lol. We do have a Collie Mishflynn, I am not anti Collie, just anti hair ball!!

Theres an old saying, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, it applies to a Dobermann and agility. Train as hard as you like, you won't beat a well trained Collie they are the rolls royce of agility and the prevalence is testament to the breeds ability.

I think you maybe spending to much time with your dogs mish, your posting is like their temperment <JOKE!>

To clarify Mish, the rules have changed, the goalposts have been moved and it favors the senoir trainers and Collie dog brigade. Its not about winning or rosettes but you don't expect to drive 100 miles to an event like a small league tennis torny and find that your tennis opponent is Andrew Murray, or at a local race car meet and Lewis Hamilton pulls up on the grid, or a low league snooker contest and Ronnie O' Sullivan turns up. Get my point?

Its taken much of the fun out of it and if it does become a Collie dominated sport then it cannot be a good thing.
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mishflynn
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28-03-2008, 07:55 AM
Originally Posted by fluffybunnyfeet View Post
Lol. We do have a Collie Mishflynn, I am not anti Collie, just anti hair ball!!

Didnt you say youd leave home if your other half got a collie as his next dog, TIC it may be (or not) bur def gives a anti collie vibe

Theres an old saying, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, it applies to a Dobermann and agility. Train as hard as you like, you won't beat a well trained Collie they are the rolls royce of agility and the prevalence is testament to the breeds ability.

Just ENJOY agility with them then, why try to "lower" the standard, surely agility is a sport you can enjoy without winning, in obedience collies predominate but alot of people work really hard with their other breeds & do get to the top.Im sure Andy Brown & Nigel staines(???name of the kelpie guy im not sure?) will disgree that you cant beat the collies!!!!!

I think you maybe spending to much time with your dogs mish, your posting is like their temperment <JOKE!>

Putting a & <joke> does not that stop that being incredibly insulting, you dont know my dogs or their temperment, AGAIN you are IMPLYING my collies are bad tempered, are you "sure" you arent anti collie, & TBH i spend as much time as i can with my dogs thanks, id spend more if i could. I CANT believe this comment so AWFUL!!!!!!!!!! So rude why dont i start insulting your dogs, would you like that,i will even stick some on the end because "hey" thats ok then!!!!!

To clarify Mish, the rules have changed, the goalposts have been moved and it favors the senoir trainers and Collie dog brigade. Its not about winning or rosettes but you don't expect to drive 100 miles to an event like a small league tennis torny and find that your tennis opponent is Andrew Murray, or at a local race car meet and Lewis Hamilton pulls up on the grid, or a low league snooker contest and Ronnie O' Sullivan turns up. Get my point?

So the young novicey dogs are now CHs of their sport when the "come out" are they?????? i think not ,they are talented young dogs that have "hopefully" been brought on coreectly at the right rate!people i know who have come out with their young dogs this year have been out of grade 3 very quickly, we have the same in obedience when a ticket handler brings out a new dog into novice & wipes the board for a few weeks, its part & parcel.

Its taken much of the fun out of it and if it does become a Collie dominated sport then it cannot be a good thing.

Its taken the fun out of it for you, im sure the people who are winning are still liking it! Sports move on & evolve, GSDs dominated obedience in the early days but now in the higher classes its doing well to get more than two per class, Should we lower the standard so other breeds can beat the collies? no & TBH their handlers would hate that! Part & parcel of having a other breed is to BEAT the collies.Are you sdaying you can only enjoy a sport if you are winning???????
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AliceandDogs
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28-03-2008, 10:57 AM
Its taken much of the fun out of it and if it does become a Collie dominated sport then it cannot be a good thing.
But for me, the fun isn't in winning, I just enjoy running around the course with my dog! I do have a collie, but I doubt we'll get very far as his contacts are shocking, most likely always will be, and he likes to spin and dance around between each piece of equipment But does it mean I'm not going to bother any more? No because we still enjoy it.

We also do obedience, and we don't exactly excel at that either, but we'll go as far as we go and have fun doing it.

I understand it would be frustrating, and you do see the owners who rip the fun out of it, but you see it with owners of all breeds to be honest.
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