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Evie
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31-08-2007, 10:20 PM
I agree with Myschievous; dogs in the wild shake out the contents of their preys stomach. Some will consume stomach contents of small prey, but this makes up a tiny amount of their diet.

And what would those contents be? My guess is mostly grasses. Highly unlikely to be the variety of veg that us people can put on offer to our dogs.

If you feel like taking the time to blend veg etc for your dogs and it's not taking the place of valuable animal bits or in amounts that could prove dangerous, go for it. But personally, without any evidence to prove it of benifit to the dog, I wouldn't bother.

As for the BARF diet; I have big reservations on that as well. But that's a whole other topic!
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britishbandit
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31-08-2007, 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by myschievous View Post
In some people's opinion - there are just as many knowledgeable people who think different.
Yes, and there are a ton of people that are fine with feeding junk kibble or themselves eating McDonalds every meal of every day. It doesn't mean because we or our dogs can live on it that it's the healthiest choice. I personally am very picky when it comes to health and nutrition, especially with my pets.

Anything that might be even a little bit better than the alternative I'll do.
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abbie
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31-08-2007, 11:14 PM
I think its a matter of what suits your own dogs is the best thing to feed them.

I personally know Amimads dogs and they are extremely healthy well fed dogs. Amimads dogs are fed on a raw meat diet and do well on it. My dogs are fed a mixture of raw meat and bones. cooked meat, veg, rice etc and part dried food and also do well.

If it is proven that whatever our dogs are fed can be improved on then I imagine most people would change. Its a very interesting subject and having an older dog that needs to loose weight, a 5 1/2 month old pup and a young dog that is shown and needs to be in her best condition if I could improve their diet certainly would.
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zero
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01-09-2007, 01:24 AM
Originally Posted by britishbandit View Post
Yes, and there are a ton of people that are fine with feeding junk kibble or themselves eating McDonalds every meal of every day. It doesn't mean because we or our dogs can live on it that it's the healthiest choice. I personally am very picky when it comes to health and nutrition, especially with my pets.

Anything that might be even a little bit better than the alternative I'll do.
so what are you sayin'? that people who choose to not worry about the veg in their dogs are not doing the best for them - I beg to differ I spend alot of time getting my dogs diet right and I'm very picky myself when it comes to their diet. Thanks
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zero
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01-09-2007, 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by Evie View Post
I agree with Myschievous; dogs in the wild shake out the contents of their preys stomach. Some will consume stomach contents of small prey, but this makes up a tiny amount of their diet.

And what would those contents be? My guess is mostly grasses. Highly unlikely to be the variety of veg that us people can put on offer to our dogs.

If you feel like taking the time to blend veg etc for your dogs and it's not taking the place of valuable animal bits or in amounts that could prove dangerous, go for it. But personally, without any evidence to prove it of benifit to the dog, I wouldn't bother.

As for the BARF diet; I have big reservations on that as well. But that's a whole other topic!
Totally agree
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zero
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01-09-2007, 01:31 AM
Originally Posted by abbie View Post
I think its a matter of what suits your own dogs is the best thing to feed them.

I personally know Amimads dogs and they are extremely healthy well fed dogs. Amimads dogs are fed on a raw meat diet and do well on it. My dogs are fed a mixture of raw meat and bones. cooked meat, veg, rice etc and part dried food and also do well.

If it is proven that whatever our dogs are fed can be improved on then I imagine most people would change. Its a very interesting subject and having an older dog that needs to loose weight, a 5 1/2 month old pup and a young dog that is shown and needs to be in her best condition if I could improve their diet certainly would.
It depends on what a person thinks is improvement. For dogs with no special needs regarding diet I personally would rather not feed a substantial amount of veg in their diet and would prefer to not loose the quality muscle meat that most people replace for the veg. Like I said their is no hard fast rule on veg - it isn't essential but if a dog likes it cool beans let them have it - but it definitley isn't an essential part of a raw diet.
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Amimad
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12-09-2007, 02:34 PM
Since I started this topic, I may aswell comment.

so the actual cause of death was no vegetables in his diet
that's what I was led to beleive & yes I would presume that it was just opinion.

I just try to do what's best for my dogs (I bet like everyboy else who loves their dogs) & if I feel it's not working after a while then we try something new. At the moment all 3 are looking well & heathy(even when I passed my vet in the street ,he stoped me to say how much better Ding looked, he had been dreadfully underwieght & x3 dry food diet was not working).
All my dogs are very active, they hardly ever sit still & raw food seems to suit better than dry. I'm glad I changed.

It's a matter of owners choice isn't it?, because as domestic pets they'll have to eat what they're given.Unfortunately, their well being depends on us & we have to choose for them, so we can do is our best
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zero
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12-09-2007, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by Amimad View Post
Since I started this topic, I may aswell comment.

that's what I was led to beleive & yes I would presume that it was just opinion.

I just try to do what's best for my dogs (I bet like everyboy else who loves their dogs) & if I feel it's not working after a while then we try something new. At the moment all 3 are looking well & heathy(even when I passed my vet in the street ,he stoped me to say how much better Ding looked, he had been dreadfully underwieght & x3 dry food diet was not working).
All my dogs are very active, they hardly ever sit still & raw food seems to suit better than dry. I'm glad I changed.

It's a matter of owners choice isn't it?, because as domestic pets they'll have to eat what they're given.Unfortunately, their well being depends on us & we have to choose for them, so we can do is our best
Your 'preaching to the converted' regarding the raw diet with or without veg!
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Gnasher
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30-12-2007, 01:58 PM
Dogs are NOT carnivores, they are omnivores ... the same as us, and the same as vulpes (fox) and all other canids. They need vegetation, and the ideal way is for them to eat it in its predigested form in a herbivore's stomach. Wolves and therefore dogs do not have the enzyme - cellulase - that herbivores have to break down cellulose, so wolves have evolved to eat the stomach and contents of their herbivorous prey to get the goodies they need. Herbivores do have the enzyme cellulase, hence their digestive system can digest grasses and other vegetation. The clever wolf knows that after the soft organs such as the liver and heart, the next best thing to eat is the stomach and contents to get all that lovely predigested grass etc. !

Our wolves, otherwise known as domesticated dogs, are unlikely to have the opportunity to eat this vital food source, so the best we can do for them is to smash up raw vegetables - and grass, if that's what you want to do - in a smoothie maker until it is a smooth paste (I always add a tiny bit of water to make the process easier and less noisy, or some tasty gravy or chicken stock if you are just doing one meal), and then you feed a tiny amount of that paste to your dog every day if possible, but certainly at least 3 days a week. For a large dog, a dessert spoonful is quite enough.

To feed raw meat and bones without the pureed raw vegetable is NOT following the BARF diet, or indeed a healthy diet, and frankly you will be better off going back to your bad old ways of feeding kibble and other commercial dog food. You MUST feed raw veg (and fruit too if your dog likes it, although fruit gave Hal the most terrible runs).

Many if not all dogs will quite probably appear to be doing very well on just raw meat and bones, but they absolutely and very definitely do NOT get all the vitamins and minerals they need from such a diet. You may get away with it, you may not, personally with my beloved boy I would never have taken the risk just because I couldn't be bothered to puree a few vegetables for him. It's no big deal, you can do one big batch at a time and freeze the result in little pots, or if you have the time, you can do it on a regular basis, but do it you must if you are going or have gone down the BARF route.

Read Billinghurst's book, don't listen to me banging on, get it from the horse's mouth!
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mse2ponder
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30-12-2007, 02:17 PM
could i just ask what a dog can't get from a meat-only diet? ie. what they get from vegetables? and not just unspecific "vitamins" or "minerals".
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