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Jackie
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16-01-2012, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
I do not agree with encouraging a dog to kill anything. However, I am not a hypocrite and I am not going to deny that my dogs have not killed some small prey animals in the past. If you own any dog with some prey drive, unfortunately accidents do occasionally happen.

I have never witnessed my dogs rip anything to shreds though. If they have ever caught some thing it is shaken and dead pretty much instantly -- no shredding involved.

There is no comparison between the accidental killing of a small prey animal by a single dog and the purposeful ripping apart of another canine (fox) by a pack of hounds. Intent is everything. Again, I cannot see how anyone could profess to being an animal lover and agree with the purposeful killing of an animal in that manner.
Exactly, the prey is killed instantly by one dog .

The ripping apart be it one or a pack of dogs is no different, the fox (prey) will already be dead, killed by the lead dog, or your pet..

Yet its expectable for the pet to do it, but not the hound.

I find
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Angie1966
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16-01-2012, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by x-clo-x View Post
i hope it gets lifted. would just like to point out that on the majority of hunts, the fox still got shot first (from what i have been told by people who have done it for years and years, a hound wont keep up with a fit fox, and the majority of men out wouldnt let it be run to the ground, it was usually shot before it got tired and then the hounds given the body). we drag hunt, the hounds will still try and go off if they smell an actual fox, to them the smell of fresh fox, beats stale urine every time, just means you have to be alot sharper with them and on your guard.. i imagine accidents still happen and some groups end up getting a real fox, i do not know though.

as for hares, when we are out we see LOADS of them. a place we were at the other week we saw near on 40 odd of them running about the fields. i dont see anywhere round my area, but travel further afield and they are there.

as for deer, they get culled every year anyway and have done for god knows how ever many years. my uncle was a gamekeeper and he had to go out and get rid of a number of them a year, to keep the population controlled. this has carried on depsite the ban, because the ban was on fox hunting, didnt effect deer in anyway.
I've had horses 40 years and many of my friends have gone hunting for nearly 30 of those years and NEVER has a fox been shot 'before it gets too tired'. A fit fox that escapes to ground has inevitably been dug from its den and thrown to the hounds. I've heard the horror stories on a weekly basis for more years than I care to remember.
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Ramble
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16-01-2012, 05:16 PM
Fox hunting is a throw back to the times when the 'gentry' killed things for 'sport' it was a social
occassion and pass time, nothing to do with controlling fox
Numbers which would have been done by the gamekeepers etc and I imagine done quickly with a gun.

Fox hunting should be banned. It is cruel, it runs a fox to exhaustion through sheer fear and then it is killed. It is entirely about pleasing the people who do it, who go along for the horse ride. Shame on them.

My MP will vote against dropping the ban, I wrote to her as soon as she was elected to make sure of her position. It is a barbaric practice. The people who do it on horses inthe countryside are no better than the ones who do it for a laugh in cities. Neither are animal lovers.
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x-clo-x
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16-01-2012, 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by Angie1966 View Post
I've had horses 40 years and many of my friends have gone hunting for nearly 30 of those years and NEVER has a fox been shot 'before it gets too tired'. A fit fox that escapes to ground has inevitably been dug from its den and thrown to the hounds. I've heard the horror stories on a weekly basis for more years than I care to remember.
the group of hounds i go with dont go out on horses.. i think that might be the difference. they went on foot, and people who were allowed to shoot, were in different places, so the fox got shot first...
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Velvetboxers
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16-01-2012, 05:24 PM
Will never find it anything but distasteful that those who support animals being torn apart or shot for sport etc can call themselves animal lovers ....
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Ramble
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16-01-2012, 05:25 PM
I can call myself a princess, doesn't
Mean I am though, the facts would
prove otherwise
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labradork
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16-01-2012, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
Exactly, the prey is killed instantly by one dog .

The ripping apart be it one or a pack of dogs is no different, the fox (prey) will already be dead, killed by the lead dog, or your pet..

Yet its expectable for the pet to do it, but not the hound.

I find
It is NOT acceptable for a dog to kill things -- I'm not sure where you got that from? accepting that it may well happen as an accident is not the same as agreeing with it. The analogy you are trying to make here does not work.

When a pet dog dispatches a small prey animal, generally there is a reason they have been able to catch it in the first place -- old age or illness in the animal typically. There is no long pursuit involved until the animal gives up from exhaustion, unlike fox hunting. No comparison.

On the flip side, what IS the justification for fox hunting with hounds?
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Velvetboxers
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16-01-2012, 05:40 PM
No one says it better than Mark Twain -

"Of all the creatures, man is the most detestable. *Of the entire brood, he is the one who possesses malice.*He is the only creature that inflicts pain for sport, knowing it to be pain. The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong, proves his moral inferiority to any creature that can not."
Mark Twain
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Jackie
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16-01-2012, 06:00 PM
l
abradork;2441514 It is NOT acceptable for a dog to kill things -- I'm not sure where you got that from? accepting that it may well happen as an accident is not the same as agreeing with it. The analogy you are trying to make here does not work.
I get it from reading posts on here time and time again, where owners allow their pet dogs to dispatch wild life.

It seems to be acceptable for a pet dog to kill and eat its own prey, but mention hounds doing the same thing and it suddenly becomes barbaric,

Originally Posted by labradork View Post
When a pet dog dispatches a small prey animal, generally there is a reason they have been able to catch it in the first place -- old age or illness in the animal typically. There is no long pursuit involved until the animal gives up from exhaustion, unlike fox hunting. No comparison.

On the flip side, what IS the justification for fox hunting with hounds?

Exactly!!

There is no long persuit and a kill due to exhaustion with hounds either.

The fit get away quicky the old and ill don`t , just as with the pet dog.
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Ramble
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16-01-2012, 06:03 PM
With all due respect JB if that were the case there wouldn't be such long pursuits through the countryside, even many landowners hate it.
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