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Location: Blackpool, UK
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,045
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15-04-2010, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by aerolor 
Thank you for that Lokies Mum - It is interesting to see that you have now changed the words from "shave" to "clip". Close shaving any area on a dog is what I am not happy with. I am still not really getting the point about the clipping of genitals, bellies and inside of legs. Surely it is better to educate people to take better care of their dog's hygiene needs. I would have thought that smaller dogs should be easier to keep clean than the bigger hairy ones. Mine could get in a right state if I did not take the time and care to see that they are comfortable (with their hair still on). I do happen to like poodles and if I eventually need to have a smaller breed I think a poodle would fit the bill. I know I would need to have its coat clipped, but I would only clip down to a couple of inches all over (just enough to keep it manageable). Is this called the puppy cut? I probably would not be able to show a dog like this, but that would not matter.
I once had a sheltie for 18 years and he had a very heavy coat. To resort to clipping a sheltie is considered very wrong in the show world and it is not done, so why is it OK for poodles, bichons etc. and considered completely wrong for shelties - they must be one of the hairiest little dogs around. Sometimes they find it difficult to keep their own bits clean and it has to be done for them. Regards
The reason we clip poodles and not shelties is that they have a totally different coat type. I get a Sheltie in for baths that was previously clipped by another groomer and her coat is ruined, frizzy and tatty. A poodle coat is unaffected by clipping, shaving whatever, as it's a single coat without undercoat and will grow back the same texture each time.
As for educating people, I think you need to take off your rose tinted glasses for a minute!
On single coated breeds such as Poodles and Bichons the hair on the inside of the legs etc. it so fine it tangles easily. I see nothing wrong in removing that hair so it doesn't get matted and smelly. It's more comfortable for the dog. All the trims I do are designed to be functional and what suits the owner. Even full coated Shih Tzus and Lhasas usually have a 'channel' shaved down the belly for hygiene and easy mainenance of the coat. Some dogs with skirts have the middle of the skirt clipped close for the same reason. People want their dogs to look nice, but they also want it to be easy to mainain themselves.
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Location: Blackpool, UK
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,045
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15-04-2010, 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by aerolor
For Jackbox
Yes I do trim my dogs as I said in the other thread. What I do not do is shave my dogs. I clean and tidy them up as necessary to keep them comfortable and healthy - flatcoat ears do get knotty, so I keep them free of tangles by thinning the hair behind the ear. I also clean out the ears regularly, take care of teeth etc. to prevent problems. What I think I am doing for my dogs is routine maintenance grooming to keep them free from discomfort, fleas, ticks and other problems. This I think is very different from shaving half the hair off a dog, (particularly around the genitals) either for hygiene or to get a desired show effect. I would think most people tidy their dogs up as appropriate - I see nothing wrong with this, it makes complete sense. Regards
. I wouldn't shave my Estrelas, or my JRT, their coats don't react well to it. Some coats do need it though.
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,114
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15-04-2010, 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by Loki's mum
I think you're being picky here. Shave, clip - it's all the same thing. The areas I mentioned are done with a no.10 blade which is close to the skin. I didn't change the wording intentionally, it IS shaving and it IS clipping.
The reason we clip poodles and not shelties is that they have a totally different coat type. I get a Sheltie in for baths that was previously clipped by another groomer and her coat is ruined, frizzy and tatty. A poodle coat is unaffected by clipping, shaving whatever, as it's a single coat without undercoat and will grow back the same texture each time.
As for educating people, I think you need to take off your rose tinted glasses for a minute!
On single coated breeds such as Poodles and Bichons the hair on the inside of the legs etc. it so fine it tangles easily. I see nothing wrong in removing that hair so it doesn't get matted and smelly. It's more comfortable for the dog. All the trims I do are designed to be functional and what suits the owner. Even full coated Shih Tzus and Lhasas usually have a 'channel' shaved down the belly for hygiene and easy mainenance of the coat. Some dogs with skirts have the middle of the skirt clipped close for the same reason. People want their dogs to look nice, but they also want it to be easy to mainain themselves.
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Location: Blackpool, UK
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,045
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15-04-2010, 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by aerolor
Point taken, but I think my hubby would disagree - if he shaved his moustache it would mean having it removed - if he clipped it (which he does) it would be trimmed. I think we shall have to agree to disagree and say each to his own interpretation on this one. I am not tryiong to get at you in any way as I am sure you do what the owners ask. Truce
I think as you say it's interpretation. To me if it's done with clippers it's clipping! No matter what the length.
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Location: cheshire, uk
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,513
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15-04-2010, 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by chaz
But what about the breeders website that I found mentioning this? That I find worrying....
And I'm also trying to make out what to think about the whole Jemina Harrison thing, as to me it doesn't matter who wrote it, to me the issue of what might be going on is more important then who wrote it, the fact that I also found it on a breeders website tells me that at least one person does, I'm not saying that everyone does, or thinks that its normal, as people who breed dogs would you put something like that on your site for everyone who will purchase a pup from you to see if you didn't agree that it was acceptable? And to me that is one person too many,
http://flutterbykennel.com/about.html
I don't know if its a british kennel but I hope not,
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Location: U K
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,588
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17-04-2010, 01:24 AM
I agree - let the dog be natural, they are a beautiful breed especially the Standard
Nice to hear that the CC Powder Puffs can be shown. In my days they were defo not allowed in the show ring although I know some breeders were hoping to get that changed. I always thought they were a lovely little dog and very much a dog ...
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Location: cheshire, uk
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,513
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17-04-2010, 07:43 AM
Nice to hear that the CC Powder Puffs can be shown. In my days they were defo not allowed in the show ring although I know some breeders were hoping to get that changed. I always thought they were a lovely little dog and very much a dog ...[/QUOTE]
i know! i couldnt believe it when i got mine that breeders used to kill them at birth if they were powderpuff
i love my little puff and she is definately a dog! 
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Location: U K
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,588
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17-04-2010, 08:49 AM
How many C Cresteds do you have?
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Location: Poodle Heaven!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,297
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17-04-2010, 09:00 AM
Originally Posted by aerolor
Poodles and other breeds that are shaved, were done for a working purpose, for water retrieve, that clip gave a dog buoyancy in the water, the pom poms gave protection to kidneys .
Sorry, but I am a little sceptical about this - poodles coats have been developed for sculpting and shaving and they do need regular trips to the barber to keep them comfortable. I would doubt that all the pom poms and the shaving of the rear ends has much to do with bouyancy or protecting kidneys. I did not know the kidneys were on the end of the tail
and certainly if the dog were not shaved on the back end it would not need protection for the kidneys. I know the origins of the poodle, but I would be more inclined to think that the lion cut is more ornamental than anything else. What I like to see in a poodle is a simple all over cut as necessary to control the growth and keep the dog comfortable. Sorry but to me the lion cut looks ridiculous and totally unnecessary for the dog's well-being. However each to his own ideas as long as the dog is happy and comfortable. I hope I do not now open a can of worms and have all the poodle enthusiasts getting angry with me. I think poodles are great dogs if allowed to be dogs and not ornaments.
My lot are in many different trims, some shaved some not, some with poms some not. That's what I like about them, any clip'll do!!
Becky
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Location: cheshire, uk
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,513
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17-04-2010, 09:16 AM
Originally Posted by Velvetboxers
Its very sad & wrong (i believe) to cull puppies for cosmetic reasons, maybe one day White Boxers will get the recognition they deserve.....
How many C Cresteds do you have?
i have one crested at the minute, a powder puff. but im getting a hairless this year too when the bitch i want one out of has been mated, and then hopefully mating daphni at the end of the year so i will keep a pup from that, that will give me three
four if you count my OHs powderpuff too i love them
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