Zena and her Advocate application!

Well, anyone would have thought I was trying to murder her!!! I had a plan, a very cunning plan, that I would do both dogs at the end of the day prior to putting them to bed, so I let them out, they had their wee, came back in, Zena shot into her bed as she does in the kitchen with Georgie awaiting her Markies. All was going to plan. I gave her only 2 mini markies, and opened the pipette and got it all ready, then I got down on the floor with 3 more markies and started to divide her coat on her shoulders She must have copped sight of the pipette, so I called for back-up, aka Dave, to hold a Markie, so she could nibble it and I could apply the Advocate. She went ballistic and I mean ballistic!!!! I resorted to the harness, which of course, set them both off thinking we were going out on a walk Ohhhhhhhhmmmmmmm, all calm again, she climbed into bed, Dave got hold of the harness and I tried again, without much luck, off she went again, but this time,luckily for me, she managed to wedge herself between me and the kitchen cabinet, and went into some kind of trance, so I was then able to slap it on her shoulders, most of it on her skin, but then again it was for a dog of 20kg to 40kgs and she's only 28, so whatever went on her coat I class as the extra for a larger dog (I hope!). She hated me, absolutely hated me, and lost all her trust in me, so I went to bed

This morning, down I came, and she had forgotten all about it and greeted me enthusiastically with her big chew bone, wagging her body waiting for kisses and cuddles. When we got back from our lovely morning walk, and she'd had breakfast, I noticed a little "scuff" on one of her back legs. So, my eyesight not being as good as it was, I not only put my reading glasses on, but also got out the magnifying glass. Oh dear, big mistake, here was mummy again approaching her body with some foreign object Under the chair she went and wouldn't come out, just like last night, so I've just spent the last half hour underneath the stairs with her in her bed, gaining back her trust, and she's let me go through every inch of her body now, but just with my hands

In hindsight, I should have spent 5 mins just stroking her in her bed, feeding her some little treats, playing with the fur on her shoulders and parting it, and have the pipette hidden shouldn't I That might have worked.We live and learn with our dogs don't we, so I'll know next time! The thing is, she's absolutely 100% with the vet now because of all the training, she's had her whole mouth examined, her legs for that lameness, and she's calm, quiet and more than co-operative, but I expect that'll all change now

Anything else I can do please to try and gain back her trust, which I thought was unbreakable, but I was wrong

oh to be honest I wouldnt overly worry and make too big a deal about it, bruno does this to me every time he knows he is getting a bath, yet he still comes in the bathroom with me all the time, so i dont think you need to worry too much, they learn to make you feel guilty quickly dont they ???

I didn't like to see her going underneath that chair again you see Dani, she did that when the trainer took her off me that night and wanted to get back to me, so it reminded me of that and now she won't go anywhere near that trainer, but of course, she's not like that with me, she's forgotten it already. I'm only worried now coz I had another plan for trimming the ends off her claws. I was going to wait until they were lying down half asleep in the kitchen together, start filing the ends off Georgie's and then move over to try and do one of hers, but of course, that will have to WAIT now, for quite a while, and they're quite lethal, they need doing! I don't want the vet or vet nurse to do them coz I don't want to put her off the vets, she's brilliant at the vets and I want it to stay that way. Thanks Dani.xxx

you and your plans missus !!

I always kind of thought it was better for them to associate nail cutting etc with the vets, that way there isnt so much trust issues with them, however having said all that, I suppose it depends on your dog too...

Bruno really isnt fazed by much and lets the vets do pretty much anything to him, the only thing funnily he isnt keen on is being brushed and never has been, whether thats because he was traumatised by it when young not sure, but I just usually try and give him a really good hair removal when he is getting a cuddle, give him a massage on his back to try and remove excess hair, but if i did it with a brush he would run away.

The vets have been able to do most things to him, nail clipping, injections, and checking of his lumpy thing on his tummy, and he is quite accepting.

good luck with her, but am sure it will be fine

I'm sure Zena will be fine, she's just thinking I will teach her

What is is with these pipettes that upset dogs so much? Do they sting? Are they cold?
Mo is unfazed by anything and yet she hates the pipettes.

I have never managed to get Tassle over hands on stuff. She acts as if it is killing her.

When she had acupuncture the vet said he had never known a dog so tense and was actually worried that she might have had a tummy problem becasue she was so rigid around there.

I have had her since she was didi and we have always taken time and had nice things as rewards....

If Zena is anything like Zeita....and it sounds like she is. No matter how much trust there is between you there is no way your going to cut her claws lol. Zeita only needs to see the clippers and off she goes . She hates it, so best left tothe experts I have decided.

do you do puppy massage? get her when shes nice and calm and sit on the floor with her between your legs and just rub/stroke/grope her all over building up on the parts that she wouldn't normally associate touching with nice things (eyes, feet, between toes, groin, under tail, scruff, back of legs etc) and turn it into a love session, lol. they get used to it very quickly if you do it every day, i've known more than one pup to fall asleep in the middle of a party from it, though the shepherds usually gob off and wiggle all the way through!! but by the end of the 4 weeks they're good as gold and love it

I think you need to just try and ignore her reaction..she will get over it, dont do anything diferent to your normal routine, if she feels you are beeing overly sensitive it may make her feel sensitve.

She will forgive you, (till next time) a few good walks .treats will do the trick.

Who would think such small thigns would wind them up so much.

Once had a pony who could smell the wormer a mile off.. god was he a little so and so to worm.

Out witted him in the end though.. but not till we had had a few battle of wills

It is possible to train zoo animals to accept some uncomfortable procedures voluntarily and the same can be done with dogs esp. if you start as pups - it usually works but obviously each individual is different.

(For part of an assignment re zoo animals I found out about how they trained a diabetic mandrill to accept all sorts voluntarily - not just the injection but also a lot of taking of blood which can be more painful - it was so interesting ).

Firstly have a look at this video, don't worry about the stuff at the beginning so much (although it's interesting) but just check out the actual video, it's of nail clipping in a dog that was very unhappy about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgEwiH8CeUE

Hopefully it will give you an idea of how to approach the problem - using rewards the dog really likes and wants, plus letting the dog choose etc etc..

If she is very scared of pipettes and things, you can start by just getting them out and pairing that action with ultra tasty food. Dogs learn very much by association and in the wild, this would help them remember poisonous food, dangerous areas, etc. In the domestic scene they learn the same way, so we an also use the same way - association with good things they love - to get what we want ie relaxed behaviour ...but one word of warning, take it slooowly...

(and if you do her nails later on, don't whatever you do cut the quick as that is really painful and may put her off, I think you are right to use a file!)

Hth a bit

Wys
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