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Stevel
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Location: Dorset
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12-12-2008, 08:57 PM
I would apply it to anyone who needlessly caused suffering to any dog through ill informed breeding or just plain greed.

Only recently I advised a friend not to breed from his bitch because she had to have operations on her eyes for Entropion. I would have a right barny if she had gone ahead.

As for signs on gates advertising labs and spaniels for sale, well I can only take your word for it 'cause I have not seen any in Dorset. Not that doesn't mean there aren't any.

End of the day, I have never bred any dogs. I have always got my dogs from sources that I am sure are doing for the right reasons. I am now considering using Jago for stud so have started the test (Hips just done 4 & 3 = 7) eyes to follow. If his hip s had been above 15 total he would not have been used, simple as that.

In all spheres there are good and bad and I am as guilty as the next for getting carried away and forgetting that at times.

Steve
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megan57collies
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12-12-2008, 09:14 PM
Well I never thought I'd give the KC a pat on the back but good on em!!!!
Who gives a stuff quite frankly that the BBC have pulled out and who made them god to tell others what to do?
The coverage of Crufts is just plain embaressing anyhow. Starting with the guffs of Ben Fogle who obviously knows little about dogs unless it's his own (plug plug). Then the filming tends to just highlight the big guns in the breeds. They're not interested in the little people or focus on the other areas of dogs (the obedience, agility). I do realise the primary thing at Crufts is showing but show me half an hour of agility any day LOL.
For most of us that go to Crufts, it's us going to meet up with friends, have fun and hopefully do well on the day. It's a show we all feel we should be at but to be honest after the crowd mayhem last year, one that I would really like to give a miss. As for the BBC coverage it's all about certain peoples egos not about the dogs anyway so will I miss it? Will I ******y
As a note I also don't understand why the rottis have been put on the list. I can only assume it's down to the bad press they have had the last couple of years. If this is the case then I think it's disgusting. This poor breed and their owners have been kicked in the teeth enough. Give them a break. I've never met a bad one. But then I only meet well bred, well loved ones who are owned by great people. Not the dodgy folk who come up in the news.
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Shona
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12-12-2008, 09:25 PM
As a note I also don't understand why the rottis have been put on the list. I can only assume it's down to the bad press they have had the last couple of years. If this is the case then I think it's disgusting. This poor breed and their owners have been kicked in the teeth enough. Give them a break. I've never met a bad one. But then I only meet well bred, well loved ones who are owned by great people. Not the dodgy folk who come up in the news.
I did wonder if this was the case... I truely hope not, how dare they,
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Lottie
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12-12-2008, 10:50 PM
I do hope whoever takes it on gives it better coverage.

I'm concerned I won't get to Crufts this time coming up, it all depends on my health as well as when I'm working so it'd be nice to have some decent TV coverage for once.

I've emailed the BBC to ask about the rottie as I cant' understand this either? Unless it's purely that they are a breed known to have instances of hip/elbow dysplasia but no more than (or less than, I don't know!) the labrador!

I do think it's just the BBC playing up to it's audience. They've aired this programme and now they can't very well endorse Crufts can they? Perhaps they didn't think that one through?
I'm very glad that the KC have stood their ground with this one though - ok, they've not always done things brilliantly but they're working on it, these things do take time and surely it's better that we all see what they're doing?

Also, I agree, the working and show strains of breeds should be pulling together for the sake of the dogs - at the end of the day the breed standard should dictate the dog is built for the work it's supposed to do so it makes sense that the two sides work together, surely?

I'm also relieved, to say the least that Ben Fogle will not be gracing our screens. I'd gotten so fed up of watching a dog show and all I got to see was them talking and fussing their own dogs!
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Vicki
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13-12-2008, 06:26 AM
I always record it and whizz past the cr*ppy bits - which far outnumber the good bits. I shall miss watching the flyball and the OB, but apart from that, I'm not bothered.
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Borderdawn
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13-12-2008, 06:48 AM
Originally Posted by Stevel View Post
I would apply it to anyone who needlessly caused suffering to any dog through ill informed breeding or just plain greed.

Only recently I advised a friend not to breed from his bitch because she had to have operations on her eyes for Entropion. I would have a right barny if she had gone ahead.

As for signs on gates advertising labs and spaniels for sale, well I can only take your word for it 'cause I have not seen any in Dorset. Not that doesn't mean there aren't any.

End of the day, I have never bred any dogs. I have always got my dogs from sources that I am sure are doing for the right reasons. I am now considering using Jago for stud so have started the test (Hips just done 4 & 3 = 7) eyes to follow. If his hip s had been above 15 total he would not have been used, simple as that.

In all spheres there are good and bad and I am as guilty as the next for getting carried away and forgetting that at times.

Steve
It is a known fact that in many gundog breeds, if they can pick up a Pheasant they breed from them!! Not too many health test, good on the ones that do. Some of the animals in all of the breeds, are so alien to that breeds its incredible, Labradors with heads like Whippets, bone no thicker either, Springers as big as the Labs etc etc.

You say you may use your dog at stud? Why is that? Do you think he is a good representative of the breed? Or is it just because he has a low hip score? Do you think its fair to say people would of shown an interest in him if they thought he was worthy? Or is it just that "you" think he is good enough?

Please dont read into my post as being rude or anything Steve, its not intended, Im just interested as to where you are coming from.
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Stevel
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13-12-2008, 07:02 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
It is a known fact that in many gundog breeds, if they can pick up a Pheasant they breed from them!! Not too many health test, good on the ones that do. Some of the animals in all of the breeds, are so alien to that breeds its incredible, Labradors with heads like Whippets, bone no thicker either, Springers as big as the Labs etc etc.

You say you may use your dog at stud? Why is that? Do you think he is a good representative of the breed? Or is it just because he has a low hip score?
Because he has tight eyes, extremely good hips for the breed, has the working instinct that has been lost in a lot of Clumbers, can do a days work and is not an overweight slob. He can jump and can actually jump into the back of my truck. He has got a good nature and has never shown any tendency toward aggression. Also at 31kg he is not too small.

Also, he would not be used as commercial stud but I would like at least one of his offspring in a year's time but he would not be put to bitches willy nilly.

In many peoples eyes, far more experienced in the breed than I, he is a very good dog and if the rest of is health checks are good would be a good dog to breed from.

I have been lucky in getting such a good dog and feel obliged to put something back into the breed that I love working but only if hia health checks are good.

Steve
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Borderdawn
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13-12-2008, 07:18 AM
Originally Posted by Stevel View Post
Because he has tight eyes, extremely good hips for the breed, has the working instinct that has been lost in a lot of Clumbers, can do a days work and is not an overweight slob. He can jump and can actually jump into the back of my truck. He has got a good nature and has never shown any tendency toward aggression. Also at 31kg he is not too small.

Also, he would not be used as commercial stud but I would like at least one of his offspring in a year's time but he would not be put to bitches willy nilly.

In many peoples eyes, far more experienced in the breed than I, he is a very good dog and if the rest of is health checks are good would be a good dog to breed from.

I have been lucky in getting such a good dog and feel obliged to put something back into the breed that I love working but only if hia health checks are good.

Steve
Morning!
So its as I thought, you think he is good enough, not because he is conformationally correct, but because his eyes are tight etc...

See I cant find anything in the Clumber standard that denotes the things you were describing, the eyes are supposed to have some haw showing, are you saying you want that to change? To suit who? Cant be the dogs as it doesnt affect them, but entropion would, thats an inherited genetic condition in many breeds and nothing at all to do with a bit of haw showing, Im wondering if this is what you are referring to?

No dog with an inherited disease or condition should be bred from, but surely thats down to responsible breeding and not the breed standard, as it CLEARLY states free from entropion.
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Shona
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13-12-2008, 09:43 AM
Originally Posted by Lottie View Post
I do hope whoever takes it on gives it better coverage.

I'm concerned I won't get to Crufts this time coming up, it all depends on my health as well as when I'm working so it'd be nice to have some decent TV coverage for once.

I've emailed the BBC to ask about the rottie as I cant' understand this either? Unless it's purely that they are a breed known to have instances of hip/elbow dysplasia but no more than (or less than, I don't know!) the labrador!

I do think it's just the BBC playing up to it's audience. They've aired this programme and now they can't very well endorse Crufts can they? Perhaps they didn't think that one through?
I'm very glad that the KC have stood their ground with this one though - ok, they've not always done things brilliantly but they're working on it, these things do take time and surely it's better that we all see what they're doing?

Also, I agree, the working and show strains of breeds should be pulling together for the sake of the dogs - at the end of the day the breed standard should dictate the dog is built for the work it's supposed to do so it makes sense that the two sides work together, surely?

I'm also relieved, to say the least that Ben Fogle will not be gracing our screens. I'd gotten so fed up of watching a dog show and all I got to see was them talking and fussing their own dogs!
Im glad you have emailed them lottie, can you let us all know what they have to say, I will be livid if they throw temprament into it.
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Jackie
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13-12-2008, 10:05 AM
Originally Posted by Shona View Post
Im glad you have emailed them lottie, can you let us all know what they have to say, I will be livid if they throw temprament into it.
Makes you wonder , doesn`t it, that the BBC have just added Rottis to their list of exclusion of coverage , simple through a warped view of the breed... nothing to do with the PPD programme

I take my hat off to the KC for standing up to the BBC and not being dictated to , since when have the BBC been the dog police....
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