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AliceandDogs
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21-04-2008, 06:03 PM
Can't we look to see how those who show in parts of Europe do it?
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Borderdawn
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21-04-2008, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by AliceandDogs View Post
Can't we look to see how those who show in parts of Europe do it?
Course you can, have a google, you'll find loads.
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mcgregorkh
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21-04-2008, 06:21 PM
I must say that the boxer tail being held to the side looks bizarre and doesn't do the dog any favours imo. I too have seen people hiding the tail up their sleeve!

The general consensus around the dobe ring is to hold the tail as I have in my avatar pic, and it has been said that it shouldn't touch the back, though this is by no means set in stone because even the judges don't know. I was at an all dobe show and my friends undocked dog was in the ring and was told to hold his tail up, yet in the stakes class she was told to let it be???

It is a difficult one and although it shouldn't make a difference whether docked or undocked, if a tail is held out it can make the dog look very long or if up to high unbalanced. If down the dog doesn't look happy. Most docked dobes are top and tailed, if this is continued then the position in my pic is correct but who is to know???
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Pita
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21-04-2008, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by Mahooli View Post
Tail set should be no different docked or undocked
Becky
In deed not, but they are different within the same breed and tails will show the set up far more than a docked tail did, particulaly in those breeds that were very short.
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random
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21-04-2008, 07:19 PM
I haven't been to many shows since the undocked pups started coming out but occasionally undocked weims tails were usually held straight out where it would have been docked or up like mcgregorkhs pic.
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random
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21-04-2008, 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by Pita View Post
In deed not, but they are different within the same breed and tails will show the set up far more than a docked tail did, particulaly in those breeds that were very short.
I noticed at Crufts different sets on rotts. I was finding myself looking and thinking just how many were wrong.
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Borderdawn
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21-04-2008, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by mcgregorkh View Post
I must say that the boxer tail being held to the side looks bizarre and doesn't do the dog any favours imo. I too have seen people hiding the tail up their sleeve!

The general consensus around the dobe ring is to hold the tail as I have in my avatar pic, and it has been said that it shouldn't touch the back, though this is by no means set in stone because even the judges don't know. I was at an all dobe show and my friends undocked dog was in the ring and was told to hold his tail up, yet in the stakes class she was told to let it be???

It is a difficult one and although it shouldn't make a difference whether docked or undocked, if a tail is held out it can make the dog look very long or if up to high unbalanced. If down the dog doesn't look happy. Most docked dobes are top and tailed, if this is continued then the position in my pic is correct but who is to know???
I think we should be paying more attention to how the dogs tail is set and carried Karen, not how handlers hold it in the ring.

In recent times, the Dobermann has been altered structurally. The tail should be a continuation of the spine, however, breeders have bred Dogs with tails that stick up, by themselves and are set on high and erect. If breeders were breeding for the correct tail set in the first place, we wouldnt be seeing tails that are curled over the backs on some dogs like Chows or Shar-Pei's, nor would we be seeing dogs with a curved tail that can reach behind its own shoulders when the dog is alert. We would IMO be seeing dogs with the correct set and carriage, which is supposed to be "slightly raised when the dog is moving"
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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21-04-2008, 09:16 PM
This is what they seem to do with English Springers on the continent:

Kennel Highscore

Go to "Our Dogs" and then pick "Dogs" or "Bitches".

I think with dogs that have a tail set in which the tail continues along the level of the spine, the problem of what to do with them is less so. Some people, however, do seem to struggle with how to trim the tail. One Springer I saw last month had a tail like an Irish Water Spaniel!
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random
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21-04-2008, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by Ripsnorterthe2nd View Post
This is what they seem to do with English Springers on the continent:

Kennel Highscore

Go to "Our Dogs" and then pick "Dogs" or "Bitches".

I think with dogs that have a tail set in which the tail continues along the level of the spine, the problem of what to do with them is less so. Some people, however, do seem to struggle with how to trim the tail. One Springer I saw last month had a tail like an Irish Water Spaniel!
yes that is how they tend to hold weims too from what I have seen in the past, forget my crappy attempt at a description, lol!
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mcgregorkh
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22-04-2008, 06:13 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
I think we should be paying more attention to how the dogs tail is set and carried Karen, not how handlers hold it in the ring.


In recent times, the Dobermann has been altered structurally. The tail should be a continuation of the spine, however, breeders have bred Dogs with tails that stick up, by themselves and are set on high and erect. If breeders were breeding for the correct tail set in the first place, we wouldnt be seeing tails that are curled over the backs on some dogs like Chows or Shar-Pei's, nor would we be seeing dogs with a curved tail that can reach behind its own shoulders when the dog is alert. We would IMO be seeing dogs with the correct set and carriage, which is supposed to be "slightly raised when the dog is moving"
Actually Dawn this thread is nothing to do with bad tail sets (that is for judges to look for in the ring), or how bad you feel the dobermann breeding has become, it is about what different breeds have decided to do with how the tail should be held in the ring.
As I said in my OP I started this thread because my pic of my pup was turning into a debate, and the biggest conversation around the dobe ring is what to do with the tails. And if holding a tail in a certain position seems to make the dog look worse( as with the boxer IMO) then that defeats the object of showing.

All breeds have changed over the years and yes people should be breeding for the correct tailset, the same as they should be breeding for the correct conformation, height etc etc according to the breed standard. In reality this is just not so by many breeders, but that is debate for another thread.........
I think with dogs that have a tail set in which the tail continues along the level of the spine, the problem of what to do with them is less so.
Yes Ripsnorterthe2nd you'd have thought so but it doesn't seem easy at all for some reason. The pictures of the springers look great and how I imagined they would be held possibly because other types are held that way. Dobes with tails in the ring are held at all different angles (also boxers and rotties). I have had loads of people looking over Krystal at shows (she is still a bit of a novelty) saying tail up, tail down, up more etc etc.The pic of her seems to be the general consensus.

Until the KC state how it should be held (if they ever do??) then I feel it will always be down to each individual judge to decide how they would like it held.
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