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pod
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27-11-2006, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
The bits between the ---------------- are from the actual rules, [ these bits below if that as clear as mud ] :

During Judging

1.14 Treat and handle all competing dogs in a confident, careful and consistent manner. Judges must not harshly handle, maltreat, or penalise unfairly any dog.



General

The following are general requirements for Judges;

1.19 Absolute integrity in order to judge honestly and impartially, and to place dogs solely on their merit.
No it's not the judges' guidelines I'm asking about sorry... the bit above that. Did someone actually say to you

"therefore to do so is not within their remit."
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morganstar
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28-11-2006, 01:28 AM
neutering is frowned apon because showing is supposed to benifit the future of the breed and as a castrated dog cant produce a litter in the past it couldnt be shown. as far as im aware this is why you need a leter from the kc saying it was done for medical reasons. I personally wouldnt differentiate between castrated and entire dogs provided there was a valid reason. In my breed theres a lack of stud dogs so we only castrate after 2 if one testickes not descended or theres a medical problem
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megan57collies
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28-11-2006, 12:33 PM
Morganstar, I agree with what you are saying, but times have moved on and there are alot of people out there that just show for the pleasure of it and have no interest in breeding from their dog. If they then decide to neuter the dog because of this, I see this as being responsible and you shouldn't lose out in the showring because of it.
I'm not aiming this as a sweeping statement before anyone comes and lynches me, but anyone that shows knows this, there are some really old fashioned judges out there who judge in an antiquated way and view. Times have moved on and thankfully we have newer judges coming in that are a little more open minded. I think to show to improve the breed standard is quite funny sometimes, as we've all seen terrible dogs get top honours because of the person showing it. Faciness is rife throughout the showing world, but you either accept that and enjoy what you have or you don't show. Is everyone genuinely out there to either enjoy themselves, or for the commitment of the breed? No they're not. To some it is businesses, the more they win the more they can sell their puppies for. We've all seen it.
This isn't a statement about everyone by the way, I'm just pointing out the obvious that we have all seen at shows at some time or other.
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pod
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28-11-2006, 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by megan57collies View Post
Morganstar, I agree with what you are saying, but times have moved on and there are alot of people out there that just show for the pleasure of it and have no interest in breeding from their dog. If they then decide to neuter the dog because of this, I see this as being responsible and you shouldn't lose out in the showring because of it.
I'm not aiming this as a sweeping statement before anyone comes and lynches me, but anyone that shows knows this, there are some really old fashioned judges out there who judge in an antiquated way and view. Times have moved on and thankfully we have newer judges coming in that are a little more open minded. I think to show to improve the breed standard is quite funny sometimes, as we've all seen terrible dogs get top honours because of the person showing it. Faciness is rife throughout the showing world, but you either accept that and enjoy what you have or you don't show. Is everyone genuinely out there to either enjoy themselves, or for the commitment of the breed? No they're not. To some it is businesses, the more they win the more they can sell their puppies for. We've all seen it.
This isn't a statement about everyone by the way, I'm just pointing out the obvious that we have all seen at shows at some time or other.
Yes, I do agree with this megan. There are still many judges who would automatically put a neuter last in a class and it hasn't been that long since it was permitted to show them after all (sorry don't remember how long re your previous question). But there are some who will place them and hopefully we'll see more in the ring in the future.

As for faciness.... I think I see less than I used to, but I do see more incompetent judging... or perhaps I've changed
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Deccy
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28-11-2006, 01:56 PM
Good post, Megan57collies!
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megan57collies
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28-11-2006, 02:36 PM
I think your right with the incompetant judging Morganstar.
With all rounders at Open and Champ shows (not all of them) they haven't got a clue. Some quite obviously judge a breed they have no knowlege or interest in and haven't even bothered to read the breed standard. For my breed for instance it says the tail bone should reach at least to the hock. One judge (i'm not joking) pulled the tail up and over his back when all that was simply required is the tail bone checked against the hock.
Or you get others that will judge my breed for instance against their own breed say rough collies. Bit of a difference there (not aiming at any judge just giving an example ) I'm judging a breed in 2008 I have no previous knowledge on (smooth collies) so i've contacted people I know which have this breed and gone and watched the breed in the ring. I also aim to attend a breed seminar on them next year. Not the same as owning the breed I know but at least i'm making an effort.
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thandi
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28-11-2006, 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by pod View Post
As for faciness.... I think I see less than I used to, but I do see more incompetent judging... or perhaps I've changed
..or perhaps over time you became a 'face'
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pod
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28-11-2006, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by thandi View Post
..or perhaps over time you became a 'face'
well yes.. I suppose you're right. You can't aquire a breed record without some recognition. But it doesn't transfer from one breed to another, at least it didn't in my case thankfully, or I would have lost faith in all-rounder judges completely
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thandi
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28-11-2006, 09:32 PM
thanks for taking that in the spirit it was written.

I did think twice about whether to hit send or not...but as I dont take the show thing seriously myself, i thought I'd take a punt
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pod
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28-11-2006, 09:38 PM
Originally Posted by thandi View Post
thanks for taking that in the spirit it was written.

I did think twice about whether to hit send or not...but as I dont take the show thing seriously myself, i thought I'd take a punt
No probs 20 years ago I may have taken offense, but I too now see the ridicule in the show scene.
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