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Jackie
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27-11-2010, 11:59 AM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
It would be simple to sort out----have working tests for anyone showing a docked gundog breed. They could do a basic puppy one before they show at 6mths and then a more advanced one before they were allowed to show as an older dog.

By 18mths the dogs should be able to do most basic gundog stuff---control and retreives would do.

rune
The point being Rune, you can show a docked dog at some shows, your above "test" would make no difference, the question in the argument is , why cant you show a docked dog at some venues , and not others.

Do you think there is any logic to that!! forget about your view on docking, have you a valid argument for a docked dog being shown at one Champ show , but not another!

Other than the "fee" paying one that is!
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nickmcmechan
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27-11-2010, 12:01 PM
why are the tails of labs not docked?
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Jackie
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27-11-2010, 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by nickmcmechan View Post
why are the tails of labs not docked?
because they do a different job to those that are docked!
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x-clo-x
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27-11-2010, 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by nickmcmechan View Post
why are the tails of labs not docked?
the reason i can think of is they are a retriever... no retrievers have their tails docked... mainly because if theyre doing water retrieves they use their tail as a rudder to swim.. also labs arent sent to flush out birds through the bush, which is where most dogs damage their tails... dont actually know why im just guessing.
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Collie Convert
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27-11-2010, 12:15 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
What the KC have said in the case of agility HTM etc is that THEY don't have a problem with a legally docked dog competing as they consider those activities to be 'work'. That includes anywhere including places where entrance is paid.

If anyone wishes to complain they have to be directed to DEFRA and/or the RSPCA and the complaint has to be noted by those running the show.

rune
Which is absolutely ridiculous, if anything, dogs competing in agility benefit from having a full tail.
How the kc can say agility/HTM/Ob is 'working' is beyond me, yes they are competitive sports but if they can make dogs competing in these sports exempt then why not showing? As it is much lmore likely to find a dual purpose gundog being shown at crufts rather than competing in agility.
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Borderdawn
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27-11-2010, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by nickmcmechan View Post
why are the tails of labs not docked?
Because they are retrievers that work in water primarily, or originally did, and their tails being so thickly covered in coat would be of no hiderance to them and beneficial in the water. Dogs that work thick cover like Spaniels have their tails ripped to bits by blackthorn etc while flushing game.
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Borderdawn
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27-11-2010, 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
We agree!

I am going for a lie down.

rune
LOL!! Wait for the next bit.

Originally Posted by rune View Post
What the KC have said in the case of agility HTM etc is that THEY don't have a problem with a legally docked dog competing as they consider those activities to be 'work'. That includes anywhere including places where entrance is paid.

If anyone wishes to complain they have to be directed to DEFRA and/or the RSPCA and the complaint has to be noted by those running the show.

rune
Work should never ever be defined as anything other than what the dog was bred originally to do, its function. If the KC see agility etc.. as work, they need to wake up! Disgraceful.

I know you were not stating it as "your" feelings Lynn.
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Borderdawn
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27-11-2010, 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
The point being Rune, you can show a docked dog at some shows, your above "test" would make no difference, the question in the argument is , why cant you show a docked dog at some venues , and not others.

Do you think there is any logic to that!! forget about your view on docking, have you a valid argument for a docked dog being shown at one Champ show , but not another!

Other than the "fee" paying one that is!
Its only the fee business that decides who can show where, stupid really.
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x-clo-x
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27-11-2010, 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Because they are retrievers that work in water primarily, or originally did, and their tails being so thickly covered in coat would be of no hiderance to them and beneficial in the water. Dogs that work thick cover like Spaniels have their tails ripped to bits by blackthorn etc while flushing game.
yey i got it right
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rune
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27-11-2010, 12:32 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
The point being Rune, you can show a docked dog at some shows, your above "test" would make no difference, the question in the argument is , why cant you show a docked dog at some venues , and not others.

Do you think there is any logic to that!! forget about your view on docking, have you a valid argument for a docked dog being shown at one Champ show , but not another!

Other than the "fee" paying one that is!

In order to comply with the law---not the KC rules, the law. You would need to prove that the dog could be worked.

Since the arguement for docking them is that it is needed for working anyone who is simply showing the dog won't need or want to dock it so it wouldn't be a problem to introduce aworking test.

To be REALLY forward thinking and innovative it could be introduced for ALL gundogs who were going to be shown. It isn't rocket science to teach the basics and it would prove fit for function in a better way than just looking at the dog would. After all the instinct/brain bit of fit for function is just as important as the way the dog looks if not more so.

rune
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