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Borderdawn
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14-07-2010, 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by morganstar View Post
Its the same with the welsh I prefer the older presentations where they could actually move without tripping over there skirt.
I went under a "friend" with Ross and got 3 out of 3 when I asked why I was told he was lacking coat.....he was an eight month all pup!!!! I had to point out our breed standard says "lightly feathered" its ridiculous should go on movement and confirmation not how much coat a dog has.
Why would you exhibit under a friend?
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Kalasin
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14-07-2010, 10:36 AM
Oh wow...I wonder if that dog has ever seen a muddy puddle?

I wonder...would the term 'moderately feathered' also change in accordance to what is on the show circuit at the time?

I prefer the first dog...but that's probably because I'm a pet owner and not a serious shower. To me the first one looks more like a dog that would be capable of doing what it was bred to do.
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Borderdawn
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14-07-2010, 10:45 AM
Originally Posted by Kalasin View Post
Oh wow...I wonder if that dog has ever seen a muddy puddle?

I wonder...would the term 'moderately feathered' also change in accordance to what is on the show circuit at the time?

I prefer the first dog...but that's probably because I'm a pet owner and not a serious shower. To me the first one looks more like a dog that would be capable of doing what it was bred to do.
Does it? How did you reach that conclusion, the "construction" is near identical on both dogs, the coat on either dog wouldnt hold it back.
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Jackie
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14-07-2010, 10:46 AM
Originally Posted by Kalasin View Post
Oh wow...I wonder if that dog has ever seen a muddy puddle?

I wonder...would the term 'moderately feathered' also change in accordance to what is on the show circuit at the time?

I prefer the first dog...but that's probably because I'm a pet owner and not a serious shower. To me the first one looks more like a dog that would be capable of doing what it was bred to do.
Conformationally there is nothing between either dog, so if the first dog looks like it could do a days work, then so should the second,

The only difference between those dogs is one has more coat than the other, and the handler has spent more time grooming the dog.

It also may come as a suprise but a dog with an immaculate coat does not not mean it never sees a muddy puddle, many a successful show dog lead as much a normal life as its pet cousins, because many a show dog is also a pet, and they will be bathed before a show!!
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Borderdawn
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14-07-2010, 10:51 AM
Kalasin.
Which of my dogs look most able to do the job they were bred for and why. Nothing meant by this BTW.

Tarn.


Orey.


Breeze.


Livvy.
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Borderdawn
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14-07-2010, 10:55 AM
Have a look here at these "show" dogs and tell me they cant work.

http://www.mompesson.com/
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Kalasin
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14-07-2010, 11:03 AM
From your pics I would say Tarn because to me his coat looks that tiny bit rougher than the others, only by pics of course. But I'd think that all of them would manage to do their jobs with no problem! But then I also bet all your dogs have seen muddy puddles and there is no 'excessive feathering' in sight!

My point with the spaniels is that if they were working as gundogs all that fur would most definitely hinder them in their work. It would get caught on things, matted, and get all manner of stuff stuck in it. I understand the importance of a good coat in the breed because it needs to be hardy. But feathers of that length I don't understand the purpose other than to look nice in the show ring.

ETA it's the same with setters, the working type setter is now pretty much a completely different breed to the show type setter.
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DevilDogz
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14-07-2010, 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Its a dog show Rips, presentation being poor is like saying Miss world doesnt need to brush her hair because she is pretty enough to win without doing so. Presentation is part and parcel of dog showing, if you dont want to present your dog to its best advantage, dont show.
Yes thats a good point! I enjoy perparing the dogs for the ring! I want them to look their best, show their best and be In with a chance of a fair placing. But If a judge turned around to me and told me she/he didnt like how I had trimmed the ears I would be right p'ed off! With Puffs, you can have shaved ears, or leave them with the fringing.
Also the Puffs can be erect or dropped ear'ed. If a judge choose another dog over mine just because how my dogs ears were perpared or how they stood, then I would have something to say, because after all its just their opinions and how the ears are prepared makes no difference on the over all dog.
Some people dont put enough effort Into perparing their dogs, and some people go way ott!


Btw Dawn - Dont ever meet me at a show because I think I would be coming home with a couple of extra dogs!!
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mishflynn
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14-07-2010, 12:32 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Its a dog show Rips, presentation being poor is like saying Miss world doesnt need to brush her hair because she is pretty enough to win without doing so. Presentation is part and parcel of dog showing, if you dont want to present your dog to its best advantage, dont show.
I completley agree with Dawn

i think it would be terrible disresptectful to enter a dog to a dog show to have to be judged on its looks, if it wasnt prepared properally. Shows zero respect for the judge imo.

Its only "a part" of what the judge is looking for.

Its abit like me going to a ob show , having the BEST heelwork but not having bothered to teach the rest of the things required, & therefore just wasting the judges time
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Borderdawn
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14-07-2010, 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by Kalasin View Post
From your pics I would say Tarn because to me his coat looks that tiny bit rougher than the others, only by pics of course.
That was my point, its only pictures. Tarn was too hard a Terrier to be any good as a Fox dog, he also has a barrel rib cage, evident in that photo, he would not be able to get to ground easily with that shape rib, they should be flat. Of all the pics, Orey is in the best "coat."

But I'd think that all of them would manage to do their jobs with no problem! But then I also bet all your dogs have seen muddy puddles and there is no 'excessive feathering' in sight!
No feathering because they shouldnt have any.


My point with the spaniels is that if they were working as gundogs all that fur would most definitely hinder them in their work. It would get caught on things, matted, and get all manner of stuff stuck in it. I understand the importance of a good coat in the breed because it needs to be hardy. But feathers of that length I don't understand the purpose other than to look nice in the show ring.
It doesnt though, working gundog folk, like Terriermen wouldnt be bothered about grooming and they wouldnt care about what the dog "looked" like, its more likely for their benefit the dogs lack the coat the breed dictates they have, however working Spaniels in many cases do have deformed fronts, you wont find that on a show dog.

ETA it's the same with setters, the working type setter is now pretty much a completely different breed to the show type setter.
Same applies, they want a lighter dog all over, so they bred from smaller, lighter animals, they dont conform to the breed standard laid down for them.
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