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scarter
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17-02-2008, 07:41 PM

Puppy Play Fighting - Dominant Pup?

Our 4.5 month old Beagle pup is a very playful and confident little thing. There is nothing she likes more than a good play fight. She doesn't care how big the other dog is, she always wants to get them on their backs. She starts out by jumping up and trying to bite the back of their necks, then when she's got them down procedes to 'bite' at their throats. There really isn't any sign of real aggression - she's just having great fun and so are the dogs that she plays with. She gets on particularly well with terriers - especially border terriers!

But the fact that she almost always (at least 95% of the time) quickly gets the other dog on it's back (no matter how big it is) mean we've got a dominant dog? I realise that the big dogs are letting her do this to them - they could stop her if they wanted. But people always comment on it so I'm assuming it's unusual for a pup to be like this?

Here's a little clip of her wrestling a St Bernard pup into submission. He was the same age as her, but about 10 times bigger. This is the normal outcome in her play fights:

http://www.youtube.com/v/JPpwJ5ag82w

(The St Bernard really did enjoy being beaten up - he kept coming back for more )

She doesn't just fight - she enjoys chasing games too. But again...she always has to have the stick/ball - and no matter how big the dog she'll eventually get it!

Should we be concerned about this for any reason? I assume it's fine to let her play with other dogs in this way? Are we likely to have problems as she gets a bit older and other dogs become less tolerant of her?
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Archer
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17-02-2008, 07:50 PM
Does she play with older dogs?
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scarter
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17-02-2008, 08:01 PM
Yes. All breeds, sizes and ages.

With very big dogs we tend to supervise more closely and only let her play with them if we think it's owners have it well under control. Some will do to her what she normally does to other dogs - she loves it and keeps going back for more. Even when she's clearly out-sized and out-smarted she won't give up! She'll happily dive in amidst a pack of big dogs play-fighting, but we haul her out of that quickly! Now she's getting bigger we're starting to get wary of letting her play with very little ones as she is quite rough. NOT aggression and not nastiness....but just very boisterous. She tends to come away with tufts of fur in her mouth - which the other dogs don't seem to mind in the least, but I feel a bit embarrassed if their owners aren't keen on them play fighting!!

I don't know how well she takes a warning from another dog. If I think the other dog is getting annoyed with her I call her back to me. If I wasn't supervising I suspect she might get herself into trouble - or maybe I just worry about her too much?
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Archer
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17-02-2008, 09:26 PM
IMO she needs to be reprimanded by another dog/dogs.Pups learn by play fighting BUT also need to learn what is acceptable and what is not.The mother will put the pups in their place when they get over the top and I think she needs a mature dog to discipline her.I don't mean she should be attacked but its like human adults telling off children...without it they become unruly.I think as hard as it is that when she gets in above her head as long as shes not in danger you should allow her to be taught a lesson from a higher dog.She needs to learn 'doggy boundaries' LOL
Out of interest at what age did she leave the litter?(
(ps...I don't think its a big problem...shes just being a naughty baby)
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Colin
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17-02-2008, 10:14 PM
From looking at that video I can see nothing to worry about as my lot still do that and the youngest one is 22-months old.

What she is doing is play fighting, which is what she would of done with her brothers and sisters in the litter. Most larger breed dogs love playing with smaller or younger dogs and will soon let her know when they have had enough.

As an example when Ruby has had enough of the fun and games she just pins down the other dog and let out one almighty bark. Believe that has always done the trick here.

What she needs to find out is just how far she can go, and I'm sorry but only another dog can tell her that.
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scarter
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17-02-2008, 10:42 PM
We got her at 12 weeks old. Most of the litter went to their homes at 8 weeks, but she had at least three or four siblings with her until 12 weeks. She was the smallest of the litter, and always very self-assured. When her siblings were clamoring for attention when we visited, she'd just lie happily chewing her toys. Despite her small size, she always seemed to have control of ALL of the litter's shared toys! But she's not at all possessive - she won't growl when people or dogs touch her things. It's just that the way the game works she always ends up in possession of EVERYTHING.

Since the day we got her she's been off lead in the park every day. So every day she gets to play with at least 3 or 4 other dogs, and on a good day perhaps 20 or more. Often she'll romp about with a little pack of half a dozen or more dogs. So she's very well socialised. Other dogs will try to put her in her place, but it doesn't seem to phase her much. She's just having such a whale of a time that she thinks it's all a big game. Of course, it's hard to understand doggy language and know exactly what's going on. But it seems to me that sometimes the other dogs do get a bit cross (perhaps they'll growl, pin her down or bite the back of her neck) with her but it seems to me she carries on regardless. Occasionally she'll yelp and then a second later she's wagging her tail and going in for more of the same. It's when I think a much bigger dog is cross with her and she's not backing off that I call her away (so I only pull her away when I think she's in danger). Maybe she is listening to them and modifying her behaviour - it's hard to spot all the subtleties of doggy behaviour! Also, sometimes I feel that the poor older doggies look a bit overawed by her boundless energy.

But I should probably add that she does seem to understand when a dog REALLY means business. Whilst a few other dogs have seemed to me to be aggressive towards her, she's only backed away from one. It was a lovely, sweet natured boxer dog that had been kept in a cage for the first 4 years of her life and never been socialised. She was very nervous, and when Beanie went up to her just to say hello she snapped a little - it didn't sound aggressive to me, and she certainly didn't touch Beanie. However, Beanie cowered by my side for a good couple of minutes. Other dogs will growl, snarl, show their teeth and Beanie just wags her tail and swings from their ears by her teeth!

99.9% of the time the other dogs are having every bit as much fun as her. But is it a sign of dominance that our pup always gets the upper hand? Both in play fighting and when it comes to sticks, balls and other toys?
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Trouble
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17-02-2008, 11:51 PM
She's got what's known as puppy licence. the other dogs are currently letting her get away with it. I see it every day when the pug puppy I am looking after beats up my staffy Just like he used to get away with murder with my Dobermanns. It won't last, there will come a point when as she gets a little older the other dogs will stop being quite so tolerant. That doesn't mean all dogs will stop playing with her but some when they tell her no will mean it and she will take notice.
Most dogs love to play fight, mine can keep it up for hours but when Syd the big male Dobermann has had enough all it takes is one gruff bark and a look that tells them to pack it in. Order is restored.
I would add it's actually a good idea to teach her to stop on command and walk on quietly. mine can go from mad play fighting to walking sedately in an instant. you never know when you need to gain control quickly and that is best taught from a young age.
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