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Mahooli
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29-03-2008, 12:33 PM

Explain for a complete Agility Numpty!

Could one of yous lovely peeps explain the grade system for me as a complete Agility Numpty, preferably in words of one syllable
Becky
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CLMG
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30-03-2008, 08:53 AM
Obviously it is so complicated Becky, it can't be explained easily I'm not sure, I thought it was just grades 1-7 and the courses got more complicated the higher the grade, but apparantly not, I think we still have a long, long way to go, and a lot to learn, but still Jack is still in grade 1 and only just got his first clear rounds in competition hopefully we will learn as we go
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Mahooli
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30-03-2008, 09:08 AM
I read somewhere that grades 1 and 2 relate to the handlers/owners status and the others to the dogs so you have to be very careful about going up grades as this affects all your subsequent dogs!
Becky
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CLMG
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30-03-2008, 09:20 AM
Mmnnee that rings a bell of sorts, one of the ladies at our club has CKCS, and one of hers one a class, but because her other dog was a certain grade, it had some significance on the other one think I'll just stay the taxi driver and let the others work it out
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colliemad
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30-03-2008, 10:26 AM
I'm not sure it can be explained in words of one syllable

Have a look on agility eye, it explains it all on there in more detail but roughly..... You would start in grade 1 and it takes either 3 jumping wins or one agility win or a total of 75 warrant points to progress to the next grade, once you are out you cannot go back. You don't have to progress on points, only if you choose to but if you win the classes then you have to go up whether you want to or not. Once you are out of grade 2 then any further dogs that you start competing with would start at grade 3 level. It starts getting even more confusing if your grade 1 dog wins a combined 1-7 class it only counts towards progression from grade 1 but if my grade 6 dog won the same class it would be towards grade 7 You cannot skip grades, once you are out any further wins or places are considered a bonus (even if you beat dogs at a higher level) until you are in the next level which with the current rules on closing dates could mean being in the grade you have won out of for several more months! For example: Your dog wins a grade 1 agility at it's first show, lets say 21 march 2008, putting you out of grade 1. With the current rules any shows that close from 28th march 2008 onwards you would enter at grade 2 so roughly your first show at the next level would be around the 2nd week in May. In the meantime your dog then wins a grade 1-3 combined class beating dogs at a higher level, this does not make any difference and you will still only be grade 2 from the time already mentioned. Basically you cannot accrue points or wins out of a grade until you are actually competing in that grade.You can only progress on points up to grade 5 after that to get to grade 6 you must win either one agility or 3 jumping classes, to get to grade 7 it is 4 wins at least 2 of which must be agility.
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AliceandDogs
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30-03-2008, 01:28 PM
I'm pretty sure that once a handler has got to grade 3 with any dog, that handler can only run in grade 3. I'm not sure if that means the next dog starts in grade 3, or if the handler has to run the dog in combined classes, that include grades 1-4 for example.
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Mahooli
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30-03-2008, 03:46 PM
I find it odd that it isn't based on the dogs ability, surely it is better to start a new dog on the lowest grade?
Becky
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Patch
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30-03-2008, 04:09 PM
I do think they should all start the same - but then their handlers would be facing the same laborious slog as people who have`nt won out and that just would`nt do
Some say it would`nt be `fair` for new handlers to compete against much more experienced ones - but hey, if the more experienced are such a threat they will win out with their new dog in no time anyway

I think it also encourages some, [ not all !!! ], to train too hard too soon because some, [ I repeat, not all !!!! ], seem to think a dog `must` start competing at 18 months regardless of which level that dog is being expected to go in at.
I also don`t think its right that a handler may have won out of whatever level 20 years ago, may not have got so much a clear round since then with different dogs, but can still jump ahead of the people who are stuck in the mind numbing drudgery of a point here, a point there.

Thats my biggest bugbear with the horrible new system. With the old one, handlers in Elementary were allowed to enter Starters and Novice, and Starters were also allowed to enter Novice - did`nt matter if the handler did`nt expect to have a cat in hells chance of winning, they still got to have the fun and experience of the courses pitched at levels in which they could have fair expectation of knowing what the course challenge level would be, [ more or less ].

Now, people who have`nt already progressed and who opt for points, especially people who have a dog of a build just not suited to high speed no matter how much and how well they train, [ ye cannae change the laws of physics and all that ], if they get steady clears but always knocked out of the placings, their dogs will be at retirement age, [ literally ] long before they will get further than a couple of levels and on to course types wich often suit a slower dog much better and are about really testing handler skill, while people who won in the past jump ahead of them from the off.
Its just not right either for new handlers coming in nor for the new dogs which will go in higher at 18 months having had to train more intensively than they should need to - hence some numpties `out there` having ten week old pups weaving and 5 month old pups already obsessive from too much too young
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colliemad
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30-03-2008, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by Mahooli View Post
I find it odd that it isn't based on the dogs ability, surely it is better to start a new dog on the lowest grade?
Becky
Not really. Once handlers are out of grade 2 they are up against much more experienced handlers on the same type of courses, if they had to deal with that right from the start they would never progress
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
I do think they should all start the same - but then their handlers would be facing the same laborious slog as people who have`nt won out and that just would`nt do
Some say it would`nt be `fair` for new handlers to compete against much more experienced ones - but hey, if the more experienced are such a threat they will win out with their new dog in no time anyway
yes they win out fairly quickly but then they have another 2 /3 months at that level winning more classes and holding everybody else up and that's just one handler. I cannot think of anything more demoralising for someone just starting out to have to be up against this It would be like competing in combined 1-7 classes at every show


Originally Posted by Patch View Post
I think it also encourages some, [ not all !!! ], to train too hard too soon because some, [ I repeat, not all !!!! ], seem to think a dog `must` start competing at 18 months regardless of which level that dog is being expected to go in at.
I don't disagree on that one but I also know that it has always gone on even before the new grades came in. I brought sol out at 18 months because I felt he needed the ring experience to boost his confidence but if he had legged it out of the ring at any point I would not have competed with him for the rest of that show.

Originally Posted by Patch View Post
I also don`t think its right that a handler may have won out of whatever level 20 years ago, may not have got so much a clear round since then with different dogs, but can still jump ahead of the people who are stuck in the mind numbing drudgery of a point here, a point there.
Don't know of anyone in that position?

Originally Posted by Patch View Post
Thats my biggest bugbear with the horrible new system. With the old one, handlers in Elementary were allowed to enter Starters and Novice, and Starters were also allowed to enter Novice - did`nt matter if the handler did`nt expect to have a cat in hells chance of winning, they still got to have the fun and experience of the courses pitched at levels in which they could have fair expectation of knowing what the course challenge level would be, [ more or less ].

Now, people who have`nt already progressed and who opt for points, especially people who have a dog of a build just not suited to high speed no matter how much and how well they train, [ ye cannae change the laws of physics and all that ], if they get steady clears but always knocked out of the placings, their dogs will be at retirement age, [ literally ] long before they will get further than a couple of levels and on to course types wich often suit a slower dog much better and are about really testing handler skill, while people who won in the past jump ahead of them from the off.
Its just not right either for new handlers coming in nor for the new dogs which will go in higher at 18 months having had to train more intensively than they should need to - hence some numpties `out there` having ten week old pups weaving and 5 month old pups already obsessive from too much too young
The dogs coming out at 18 months atraight into grade 3 haven't necessarily had to train more intensively as the courses they get at that level are generally the same as those in grade 2 with minor differences, you will see this if and when you actually compete under the new system. The fact is that an experienced handler can make an average dog look very good and can also make up time on a course in places that a newby wouldn't. We have already heard the "I can't get placed with my dogs and it's all the fault of senior handlers and collies" moan (not a new one!) if everybody started at grade 1 it would be a whole lot worse. Imagine being up against the likes of greg derrett or toni dawkins, both very experienced handlers with agility champions and experience at the world champs, bth at Olympia last december, at your first show and every one after that.....
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