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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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19-10-2009, 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by random View Post
You will soon find out if he's show quality according to the judges when he's around 6 months.
Indeed!

Originally Posted by jones View Post
Did the breeder reduce the price of the dog, because when my OH brought a Lab on 'just a pet' purpose, he paid a lot lower price for her, and she wasn't KC registered but the breeder did show all the paperwork of the dam and sire with the registration of the litter with KC...

Did the breeder say that they were reducing the sale price for the dog, due to it's 'pet only' status? As I could see wh the are reluctant to give permission to show the dog, feeling that they had been conned into selling one of there litter under pertences...

If this has happened perhaps offering the make-up cost of the dog might change there minds?

But I would have a word with the kennel club, as they might be able to say, whether the sales slip could be considered a true contract enforcable by law or not
No they paid £600 for him, same as all the other pups in the litter. The price was advertised on CD.

Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
The kennel club will NOT do anything if you decided to show. There is no restictions on KC papers saying you can/cannot show a dog.
I really dont get the breeder though, Surely if the pup goes to ringcraft, learns to show and is a good example of the breed then any breeder worth their salt would be proud of their dogs babes being shown.

What Dawn said earlier in the thread is right though... If your parents are worried about the breeder trying to inforce the contract ( more chance of plating fog, or being bit by a daffodil than a judge siding with the breeder) then transfer the kc ownership into your name... once a transfer is done, you as the owner have no contract with the original breeder at all
I was thinking about this the other night and I thought what about just registering him in my Dad's name when his papers come through as it's only my Mother that has signed the sales receipt?

Originally Posted by Mahooli View Post
It will be the breeders responsibility to take your parents to court to test their contract on the no show aspect and most breeders simply wouldn't do it. However, if he is a successful show dog and someone wants to use him for breeding then that is where the difficulties arise!
I'd say go ahead and show him. If there are problems as Dawn said transfer him into your name. Then even the breeding restrictions can be lifted as there is no contract in force between you and the breeder!
Becky
He won't be used for breeding tbh, my parents just wanted a pet I'll only show him here and there nothing major. It's just nice for me to keep my hand in with Spaniels and also nice for Rossi to get out and about (he adores everyone!). That's why I can't understand the breeders problem, we really won't be any competition at all!

Originally Posted by Shona View Post
get him in the ring, give him a go and see what the judges think,

im assuming he was the same price as the show pups,

have fun with him, I think the breeder,,,,,,well reeks of breeder

so many are so competitive, its mental, I wouldnt give a hoot, if its my breeding in a loving home beating me in the ring, good enough, I would be proud of it
Yes he was the same price, I think they're just cutting off their noses to spite their face tbh.

I can't stand all the competitiveness and the whole "show quality" thing. Surely every dog should be a pet first and fore most and anything else is a bonus!

Originally Posted by Muddiwarx View Post
Does he have a poor bite or anything that would make him unsuitable for showing? He looks nice to me but I don't know the breed ... is just seems nonsensical so am wondering if there is something else going on?
Nothing wrong with his bite that I know of, but then I do try and keep my hands out of his mouth at the moment! I'll see what they say at Ringcraft on Wednesday, they'll let me know if he has anything major wrong with him.

Originally Posted by Sal View Post
I see no reason for this at all,I would be as proud as punch if a puppy I bred was been shown.

I think what Dawn said could be the truth.

Becky the KC will uphold endorsements if they are placed correctly by the breeder even if the dog changes hands,
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=784

If an endorsement is correctly placed, the KC will not lift it without the specific permission of the breeder – even if the dog changes hands again.
Just looked at that, I'm thinking it doesn't apply in this case as they're talking about endorsements on the KC registration as opposed to endorsements on the pup itself?
Originally Posted by morganstar View Post
Was just going to say that lol.
My contract also states the puppy is not to be sold on and I fill in the names and addresses bit on the back before I sign it.
Tbh I'm not suprised about the not to be bred from clause all my pups go with this and the dog owners are told it will not be lifted under any circumstance, but I am suprised about not been allowed to show.
Who did you buy him off do they show (you can pm me )
I say go for it, he looks nice and as long as he's confident dont see what there problem is.
I think I've keep the wrong puppy out of the last litter she has a level bite which were hoping changes when the permenant teeth come through, the 2nd pick is hopefully going in the ring anyway as is the pick of the dogs.
He was bred by Eastriding, his Dam is a very nice dog and one of my personal favourites.

I'll have a go with him, thinking about taking him to Manchester, but he'll literally be 6 months and 6 days!
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random
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19-10-2009, 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by Ripsnorterthe2nd View Post

I'll have a go with him, thinking about taking him to Manchester, but he'll literally be 6 months and 6 days!
Dare ya
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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19-10-2009, 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by random View Post
Dare ya
I know! It'll be Oscar's second Champ Show and my friend will be taking her friends Spin pup - that's 3 puppies in the back of the car all the way to Stafford!

I wasn't going to enter him, but the ESS judging isn't "racist" and if I don't it'll be May before I can take him to another one......
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morganstar
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19-10-2009, 11:17 PM
Whos judging you and do they have a minor puppy class.
Gracies 20 days too young, and we have a mp class not fair ;D
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ATD
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20-10-2009, 06:19 AM
suki my pup couldnt be KC registered as her mum milly was sold as a "pet" and not to be shown or to be used for breeding. the owners werent fully aware of this until they came to register the pups. sukis litter was an accident anyway (a little early) so i dont fink they could have been registered anyway as mum was 11 months??
ATD x
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Cassius
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20-10-2009, 09:07 AM
Hi,

Firstly a sales receipt will not stand up legally as a contract, regardless of who signed it. If it's a formal contract that has been signed, at least check exactly what it says.

Also, it's you who wants to show him, yes? YOu haven't said that you signed anything for the pup so there is no agreement between the breeders and yourself regarding wherther the dog is a pet or show dog.

If you only want to do it for fun anyway just go ahead and do it.

It would cost the breeders an absolute fortune to stop you legally, and that's assuming it's specified properly in the contract.

Zane's breeder told me ages ago I couldn't show him. I told him exactly where to go as he has dodgy breeding practices. These people are bullies. Don't let them get to you.

Having said that, I can understand breeding endorsements going onto the registration but where's the harm in showing. They shoul dbe really happy, fo ryour parents and their pup.

Laura xx
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spot
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20-10-2009, 09:34 AM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK View Post
Puppy contracts have been proved not to be enforceable, otherwise everyone signing one, which includes a return to breeder clause, would have to return the dog to the breeder, but this just doesn't happen & if they had not wanted the dog to be eligible to be shown, they should not have registered him QED. Their big mistake.

If they really thought he was only "pet quality"then they would have done this & not handed over or sold him as KC registered.
I wonder why breeders bother then? Especially when people who say a responsible breeders should do it and then advise people to ignore anything in the contract?


Originally Posted by Mahooli View Post
It will be the breeders responsibility to take your parents to court to test their contract on the no show aspect and most breeders simply wouldn't do it. However, if he is a successful show dog and someone wants to use him for breeding then that is where the difficulties arise!
I'd say go ahead and show him. If there are problems as Dawn said transfer him into your name. Then even the breeding restrictions can be lifted as there is no contract in force between you and the breeder!Becky
I hope no one who is not as responsible as Rips


Originally Posted by morganstar View Post
Was just going to say that lol.
My contract also states the puppy is not to be sold on and I fill in the names and addresses bit on the back before I sign it.
Tbh I'm not suprised about the not to be bred from clause all my pups go with this and the dog owners are told it will not be lifted under any circumstance, but I am suprised about not been allowed to show.
Who did you buy him off do they show (you can pm me )
I say go for it, he looks nice and as long as he's confident dont see what there problem is.
I think I've keep the wrong puppy out of the last litter she has a level bite which were hoping changes when the permenant teeth come through, the 2nd pick is hopefully going in the ring anyway as is the pick of the dogs.
Can I ask though how you would feel if people told your puppy owners to ignore your contract?
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mo
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20-10-2009, 09:35 AM
I havent read all the post, sorry, but I find it strange that a breeder would try and prevent a dog from their breeding being shown, if there wasnt a reason for it? ie bite incorrect, very poor front, bad feet, pasterns, overangulated incorrect coat, to me the dog looks fine but I dont know the breed standard. and I am presuming the breeder does? I just dont get the "jealous" angle, and that they sold the wrong pup and have sour grapes? I am guessing there is a fault that has not been noticed by the owner because they adore thier dog, it is ALWAYS difficult to critique your own dog. I guess the only way you are going to find out for definate is by showing the dog and seeing if he is faulted for anything or if he takes the ring by storm lol

Mo
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JoedeeUK
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20-10-2009, 09:47 AM
I know the people who bred your parents puppy & TBH I'm not surprised at their attitude. Nothing to do with you, but they aren't(being PC here)not the best of losers in show competitions, as I have witnessed first hand over the years-including hearing some very unpleasant remarks about a dog that beat theirs in the ring(the other dog went on to get made up into a full champion & it wasn't the same breed as theirs).

If you want to show him & there's nothing to stop you-go for it is my advice, there's nothing they can do to stop you. I would love to see what reason they could give a court for selling a puppy at full price & then trying to stop it being shown because they don't want it to be !!!
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morganstar
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20-10-2009, 10:44 AM
Originally Posted by spot View Post
I wonder why breeders bother then? Especially when people who say a responsible breeders should do it and then advise people to ignore anything in the contract?




I hope no one who is not as responsible as Rips




Can I ask though how you would feel if people told your puppy owners to ignore your contract?
Not breeding and not showing are two completly different things and i'm suprised you cant see it.
As far as i'm concerned Ems mum should be able to show if she wants, if she bought it as a pet I can see why they wouldnt want it bred from which is completly different.
As they saying goes "you pay your money and you take your chance" the judges will decide whos right abou tht equality of the puppy.
With regards unenforced contracts, whilst your right I cant stop someone breeding I can stop the KC from registering the pups (I forgot to lift my own restrictions on one of my dogs and I can assure you the KC refused to register the litter and wrote to me).
Also lifotng restrictions is one of the few things you cant do online, you have to do it in writing.
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