being ignored ! what am i doing wrong ? plese help

I am so frustrated gemma is nearly 5 years old ,and untill about a year ago her recall was resonable,............but dispite my best efforts following the advise by sb ,i am now being almost totally ignored to the point that i no longer let her off lead ,and worse than that she is begining to do things she's never ever done ,for instance yesterday she stole food from the table ,it was only a bag of sweets ,but why?, shes never ever done that before and she didnt even look bothered when we told her off , i feel as if ive lost all respect she once had for me ,and i need your help to regain that ,also do you think going back to training school would help us , im sure its as much my fault as hers maybe more ,please help its so frustrating

Hi Olly Oh dear naughty Gemma ....I think sometimes as dogs get older and past the puppy stage we tend to become more relaxed with training and let things slip,also dogs can forget if they are not reminded what is expected of them and rewarded for their good behavior.

I think training is an ongoing thing and should be continued throughout the dogs life both to refresh its memory and to keep the brain active and stimulated. I would say your answer is training..the NILIF programmer in particular may be helpfully to Gemma

click here

Olly
I am so frustrated gemma is nearly 5 years old ,and untill about a year ago her recall was resonable,............but dispite my best efforts following the advise by sb ,i am now being almost totally ignored to the point that i no longer let her off lead ,

Clob
The reason the ignoring is increasing is because on the very first occasion she broke a command, breaking the command (any command) was a reward to her = positive reinforcement.

Every time since that occasion that you have ‘recalled’ (probably a few other commands as well) and she has broken them she has ‘positively reinforced’ ignoring behaviour – keeping her on a lead is severe punishment and it has no training/learning purpose.

Olly
and worse than that she is begining to do things she's never ever done ,for instance yesterday she stole food from the table ,it was only a bag of sweets ,but why?,

Clob
What I wrote above is why and it will increase because of the positive reinforcers occuring.

I think I would try going back a few stages and starting from the beginning.

Perhaps try her on a long line and keep recalling her and rewarding her for listening to you? Then as she becomes more reliable and you feel more confident start letting her off again.

Also have you tried whistle training, I've always found they tend to respond more to a consistent sound like a whistle.

As for the stealing, not really sure how I'd handle that so I'll leave that to someone else!

hi clob,thanks for your reply ,as i said im not a trainer in any way , so excepting what you say could be right , what do you suggest i do now to undo the damage done .thanks

Hi Olly - I can't give you a method of correcting this,not knowing the dog you or the 'real' everyday situation. What I can do is give a mediocre option to suggest something which will not further positively reinforce the 'ignoring behaviour' and make it worse.

Try to train yourself to NOT to give a command, when your dog is at a point in whatever she is doing that you think she will ignore you. If you do give commands and she ignores you it gets worse each time because each time she ignores you there is a positive reinforcement to ignore you i.e. she ignores the command and gets rewarded in her enjoyment of whatever she is doing, whatever she is doing is a reward. = positive reinforcer.

If you say nothing when you know she will ignore you then that does less damage - at some point you might start re-training with whatever methods you retrain with, if there are no further 'positive reinforcements' of ignoring behaviour then things will be a lot easier at that point.

To add, this is not an easy exercise for anyone.

I always get confused by the not giving a command things..

If I need to ask for a recall for any reason - there IS usually a reason for it, and to not give it because the dog is distracted, surely poses a risk for the dog?

Luckily, the stage I am at now, Bodhi is 99% with recall (100% when I have her beloved ball).. But in the "What if" scenario?

Hi

I'm interested in that Gemma is 5 and wondering if she was ever good at recall or, whether she has ever really responded to you well (ie fast, fluently etc)?

If she has been good (or at least, better) in the past and has now become worse, you may need to ask yourself what (if anything) has changed.

Sometimes, a behavioural change in an adult dog can be due to a health problem (although this is in the absence of any other reason of course).

How did you train her initially?

What was her best Recall time (ie puppy, or age 2, 3, 4, etc?)

Have you ever told her off for not coming back, or has anyone else done so?

Do you keep calling her? (if you do this, ie "Gemma come, here Gemma, Gemma, oh Gemma here, come here..."
then she will be used to ignoring you

If she's got used to you calling her and she ignoring you, you may need to change the word you use, or even try whistle training as a complete change

Going back to basics may be best, but you need to be sure you totally understand the "rules" and best way to train for success! And make sure others do the same and are consistent.

There are lots of things you can do, for example go on strange walks, keep changing direction, do play training, teach seek and find, all these things help with the dog paying attention. Getting attention is part of the relationship as a whole, you want a dog who, when you call, looks up with shining eyes and says "wow, you want me? I'm coming NOW! "

I have a good recall and do lots of fun rewarding things. Many walks are also training sessions although there is lots of free running and play and sniffing allowed. I always think that if anyone wants a well trained dog, they need to train a little each day and have fun doing it. OK maybe not every day, but just a bit here and there

Bodhi
If I need to ask for a recall for any reason - there IS usually a reason for it, and to not give it because the dog is distracted, surely poses a risk for the dog?

Clob
Hi, sorry I might not have put what I meant properly.

I did not mean do not recall when the dog is distracted – I meant do not recall at a point in the dogs behaviour when you think, by past experience, the dog will not respond to the command – yes it does pose a risk but if it is not going to recall anyway it is already at risk, recalling, knowing the dog will not respond, does not increase the risk.

Bodhi
But what in the what if scenario

Clob
Good point, ignoring command behaviours, in a dog which has been satisfactorily trained at some point, usually begins with a response to a command becoming sluggish but not refusing, the graduation of the sluggishness increases until it refuses completely for the first time, from that point on its downhill.

Once slugish responses start to show you are in the "what if" situation with a dog every time.

Oh, I found that soooo helpful! Charlie has got a tad lazy with his recall, (or maybe it's me??) so will do some more training tomorrow.