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Azz
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30-10-2013, 11:44 PM

Dogs Are People, Too?

Many of us have always known (or felt it in our guts) that dogs feel and convey emotions. Now this fascinating study about dogs having 'human' emotions was published recently. They used an MRI scanner on specially trained dogs to have them while they were awake. Really is worth a read: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/op...mpaign=Buffer&

But now, by using the M.R.I. to push away the limitations of behaviorism, we can no longer hide from the evidence. Dogs, and probably many other animals (especially our closest primate relatives), seem to have emotions just like us. And this means we must reconsider their treatment as property.

One alternative is a sort of limited personhood for animals that show neurobiological evidence of positive emotions. Many rescue groups already use the label of “guardian” to describe human caregivers, binding the human to his ward with an implicit responsibility to care for her. Failure to act as a good guardian runs the risk of having the dog placed elsewhere. But there are no laws that cover animals as wards, so the patchwork of rescue groups that operate under a guardianship model have little legal foundation to protect the animals’ interest.

If we went a step further and granted dogs rights of personhood, they would be afforded additional protection against exploitation. Puppy mills, laboratory dogs and dog racing would be banned for violating the basic right of self-determination of a person.

I suspect that society is many years away from considering dogs as persons. However, recent rulings by the Supreme Court have included neuroscientific findings that open the door to such a possibility. In two cases, the court ruled that juvenile offenders could not be sentenced to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. As part of the rulings, the court cited brain-imaging evidence that the human brain was not mature in adolescence. Although this case has nothing to do with dog sentience, the justices opened the door for neuroscience in the courtroom.

Perhaps someday we may see a case arguing for a dog’s rights based on brain-imaging findings.
Is it about time we saw ourselves more like guardians than 'owners'? And fight for more rights for dogs? Especially in protection of their welfare? If their status was raised, it would be harder for them to be abused by puppy farmers, BYBs, irresponsible owners etc...
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Julie
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31-10-2013, 07:19 AM
Not really, I do call mine little people with fur coats and of course dogs should be well cared for and loved and all their needs met. But go further and you become a PETA supporter and I shudder to think what would happen then, no dogs kept as pets would be the way they start and I think we benefit from keeping them with us in our homes and they benefit from living with us too.

They have feelings of course they do but we can meet their needs without recognising them as people and giving them equal rights etc
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Trouble
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31-10-2013, 09:02 AM
I'm amazed they could get a dog to keep still in an mri scanner tbh. I've had a few mri scans and the ones on the body are no problem but the one on my head le ft me with what felt like my eyeballs spinning in opposite directions and I couldn't stand up without staggering about. I certainly wouldn't put a dog through one unneccessarily.
No dogs are not people and I think we do them a disservice if we treat them as such.
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Julie
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31-10-2013, 09:13 AM
Sedation is the key when they scan animals I believe. Which makes testing for things like this not really something I like to see done. I think ask any dog owner and they can tell them the answers without scans !
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Meg
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31-10-2013, 10:44 AM
Having read the article I don't think it really tells us anything new
I would say the title of article is misleading, Dogs are not people , they are not 'lesser beings' to humans either just different ...

Slightly OT, I was amazed on watching last weeks 'Country File' to see how intelligent sheep are, they can actually be trained to distinguish between a cross and a circle to get a reward.
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Trouble
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31-10-2013, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by Julie View Post
Sedation is the key when they scan animals I believe. Which makes testing for things like this not really something I like to see done. I think ask any dog owner and they can tell them the answers without scans !
They do sedate animals when scanned for diagnotic purposes but they claim in this case they trained them to accept it. I'm not of a nervous disposition and went for the mri on my brain thinking I knew what to expect as I'd had body mri's before. The one on my brain was something else entirely and no I would not put any animal through it.
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Julie
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31-10-2013, 12:02 PM
I have to agree when I had one I found it very disturbing and I am not claustaphobic in anyway.
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Gnasher
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31-10-2013, 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
Many of us have always known (or felt it in our guts) that dogs feel and convey emotions. Now this fascinating study about dogs having 'human' emotions was published recently. They used an MRI scanner on specially trained dogs to have them while they were awake. Really is worth a read: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/op...mpaign=Buffer&

Is it about time we saw ourselves more like guardians than 'owners'? And fight for more rights for dogs? Especially in protection of their welfare? If their status was raised, it would be harder for them to be abused by puppy farmers, BYBs, irresponsible owners etc...
In a nutshell - no. I strongly believe in pack theory - with humans being pack leaders, NOT guardians. That is not to say that I don't believe that dogs are sentient beings capable to feeling emotions, but they are dogs at the end of the day - not our babies.

As much as I am crazy about dogs, and fully supportive of their rights to be kindly treated and not abused etc. etc., no way do I agree with the theory that we should be dog "guardians".
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Tang
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31-10-2013, 01:30 PM
Well just regarding the title - NO dogs are not PEOPLE they are DOGS! Different species!
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Julie
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31-10-2013, 01:45 PM
Can't say I think Guardian rather than owner isn't a bad way to look at things though. Perhaps if more people looked at it that way they would not be considered property by the law and when they are stolen or lost the police would be more helpful than they are currently !
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