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Luke
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16-11-2006, 10:45 AM
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
I`ve answered that I think [ though I dispute that `should` be docked is appropriate ]




You won`t draw me in Luke, been there, done that. One of my dogs is a tripod btw, having been mowed down [ while on lead ] by a drunk driver. His injuries were horrendous and he had to have the leg amputated. Every dog everywhere is at risk of limb injury be it from traffic or just stumbling when chasing a ball. But you won`t hear me saying all dogs should have their legs chopped off at birth.
I have a disabled arm from an accident - if only my mother had the foresight to have had that removed when I was born ` just in case`.
Sorry but there are so many things which can happen to any animal and any human, its called life. Docking a dogs tail based on breed alone is spurious at best.



You are sadly mistaken about the pain at the time, and the lifelong pain and recurring problems caused to many because of docking [ and deaths from it ]. We can all cite examples on one side or the other.
In one European country, pro-dockers were up in arms saying dogs would be injured left right and centre yet in the veterinary study taken for the first year after the ban, seven dogs were treated for tail injuries, none were classified serious and less than half were of previously docked breed. I`ll try to refind the details on that [ I lost all my bookmarks when my PC died the last time ]



It was`nt a joke Luke, I was being absolutely serious.
Pain they suffer whilst being docked? The nerve system isn't fully established so HOW? And if they suffered pain wouldn't they scream or squirm?
Lifelong problems? Well how come i, nor many other, haven;t heard of this?
Sorry-you won't draw me in either, i've seen the affects of non docked dogs etc. I've seen a cocker be PTS through injuries sustained by catching her FULL tail on some brambles whilst on a shoot-terrible..
And if that was serious-cor i would hate to see humerous!
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Ramble
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16-11-2006, 10:51 AM
Patch, I couldn't agree more and have had this discussion on here before.
Suffice to say, any part of my dog could be injured at any time, doesn't mean I should chop it off just in case. I also agree with Patch if the situation is that dangerous, then other parts of the dog could be susceptible to injury too, in which case, the dog, IMO shouldn't be put in that situation.

The difference between neutering and docking in my eyes, is that neutering is done for proven health reasons. Unneutered dogs are more susceptible to prostate problems and cancers. They can also be more nervous and aggressive. They can also sire unwanted litters. Not good. The health benefits of docking, as far as I can see, are to try to prevent injury...injuries sustained by humans putting the dogs in dangerous situations...entirely different.
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crazycockers
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16-11-2006, 10:53 AM
I CHOOSE not to dock, after holding pups for docking and knowing they feel pain decided I didn't want to make them suffer.... Only one of my pups has gone on to be a working dog, his tail is trimmed of feathering and has never had a problem.

Although I don't dock, I still think the country is going mad, rules for everything these days, quite a few cocker breeders/show persons said they will give up the breed now, I'm not sure if this is a knee jerk reaction, lets hope not.....but I still think you should have the choice!
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Luke
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16-11-2006, 10:53 AM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Patch, I couldn't agree more and have had this discussion on here before.
Suffice to say, any part of my dog could be injured at any time, doesn't mean I should chop it off just in case. I also agree with Patch if the situation is that dangerous, then other parts of the dog could be susceptible to injury too, in which case, the dog, IMO shouldn't be put in that situation.

The difference between neutering and docking in my eyes, is that neutering is done for proven health reasons. Unneutered dogs are more susceptible to prostate problems and cancers. They can also be more nervous and aggressive. They can also sire unwanted litters. Not good. The health benefits of docking, as far as I can see, are to try to prevent injury...injuries sustained by humans putting the dogs in dangerous situations...entirely different.
I disagree with your statement about intact dogs being more nervous/aggressive-that's rather sweeping actually!

Who says the dogs sustain injuries from being put in dangerous situations?
Many of the gundogs/terriers i have known (undocked) that have had tail injures haven't all been workers-just the natural personality of the dogs-springers for example, quite all over the place-tend to run around a full pelt, that combined with the love of undergrowth, hedgerows etc and a full tail-disaster!!
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Moobli
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16-11-2006, 10:59 AM
Just out of interest, what do those who are against docking feel about dew claws being removed?
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Ramble
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16-11-2006, 11:02 AM
Luke;I disagree with your statement about intact dogs being more nervous/aggressive-that's rather sweeping actually!
I actually said:
They can also be more nervous and aggressive.
As I didn't mean for one moment that all unneutered dogs were nervous or aggressive, it is just a possibility..as it is with a neutered dog...just pointing out a possibility.


Who says the dogs sustain injuries from being put in dangerous situations?
Many of the gundogs/terriers i have known (undocked) that have had tail injures haven't all been workers-just the natural personality of the dogs-springers for example, quite all over the place-tend to run around a full pelt, that combined with the love of undergrowth, hedgerows etc and a full tail-disaster!
My X breed and BC LOVE going sniffing in long grass and brambles. My X breed is ALWAYS getting brambles etc stuck in his tail and feathers. They have however, sustained more injuries to their pads from the broken glass on pavements or in long grass than from brambles in their tails. By your logic I should have their paws cut off...
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Ramble
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16-11-2006, 11:04 AM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
Just out of interest, what do those who are against docking feel about dew claws being removed?
Hi Moobli.
I am aganst removing dew claws too and have never had a dogs dew claws removed.
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Patch
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16-11-2006, 11:05 AM
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Ramble
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16-11-2006, 11:09 AM
Patch...thank you.
Fantastic post.
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Luke
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16-11-2006, 11:15 AM
If carried out by an experienced vet-i see in no way how the dock can cause problems.
Patch-that was an intersting read, however i have never been one to hold opinions unless i have experienced them, and I have never personally been one to have their views/opinions swayed by something i have read. For the primary fact, as with this report, it is often one sided. This report illustrates it perfectly-it's from an anti docking POV.

RE: Dew claws-don't get me started on them! The injuries sustained due to dew claws *shakes head* makes me cry! Ralph has been 3/4 working docked with dew claws off-and so will any future springers I own
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